Playing the player or playing the rush?

Jeffage · #1 04-16-2003, 08:05 PM

I really don't know if I played this well or if it's evidence that I need to take my foot off the gas more often. Party Poker full 15 game...game is loose aggressive. I have 66 UTG and call...debate this all you want, I admit it's marginal in that spot in this game. MP raises, and I'm the only caller. Flop comes 3h 2h 7s. I bet, he raises, I reraise, he caps. I call. Turn is a king. Ugly. I bet, he calls (I was planning on folding if raised). River is a blank. I check, he bets. Decision. Comments on play appreciated...BTW, this isn't my default play here but I was mixing it up on the flop against an opponent I put on pushing AK for a free turn.

Thanks and flame away,
Jeff

elysium · #2 04-16-2003, 11:55 PM

hi jeff
horrible decision pre-flop. the problem jeff is that your poor position destroys your implied odds. you got to the flop o.k. though, just barely.

great flop for you, and you played it great. but you're fading again on the expensive rounds. unfortunately, you won't be able to retreat on this one. the pot is too big. you will own each and every A or K that turns, and will bet it and reraise if necessary. and bet out on the river.

in these situations, heads up, you cannot weaken when you figure to be in the lead. it's unfortunate, but that's how you must play it. if this were no limit, and you somehow knew how the flop would land, you'd go all in. that is pretty much what you did, and were correct in doing so. but here, you tied not only your opponent to the pot, you tied yourself to it too. so, because of pot size, and the fact that you only have one opponent standing between you and it, you must put in the 3 bet on the turn. that's what you must do. so that answers the question about the river. it's a must bet. you must bet the river. you must fold 77 and 88. that's right, you must fold 77....well, i forgot what the flop was, but you must fold out the middle pairs, and AQ or 55 will give you action. that's what you're up aganst here, and you won.

the huge mistake was the pre-flop call; you compounded it by check-calling the river. bad jeff. real bad. he also could have A3h. but you won here. you can't let 88,99 hands get their foot in the door on the river.

astroglide · #3 04-17-2003, 12:39 PM

if the game is loose aggressive and i HAD decided to play 66 utg (which i probably wouldn't) i think raising preflop is better in hopes of getting 3bet by a trashy suited ace or something.

not following you on the 3bet on the flop. i think this is a perfect case for stopngo / fold the turn if raised.

Jeffage · #4 04-17-2003, 05:34 PM

Astro,

It's kinda funny you mention potentially raising 66 preflop...I was about a click from doing just that but then I remembered, wait I was playing a full game and not short (which is 90% of what I play on Party, 10 or 15 5-max) and froze for a second and...called. I should have mucked. I screwed up. But on the flop, I see this crap all the time at these limits...Mr. AK or AQ on a rag flop will put in 4 bets on the flop to get a free turn...doesn't seem to solid to me, but hey what do I know? I like stop and go generally but I don't think it is right in this spot because...I dunno, it just seems to obvious, and I think lots of people get raised off their hands doing this stuff. People think, hmmm, he's betting, that's weird...u'd think he'd checkraise with a hand. Then they're like, [censored] it I'll raise. Just my opinion. I think if he doesn't hit his pair on the turn he folds with 6 outs and I want him to. I just think I'm playing like I flopped a set so or have something like 10-10 so hopefully he'll fold. Ah well, I thought the hand was interesting...comments? =)

Jeff

astroglide · #5 04-17-2003, 06:49 PM

i too commonly witness the 'cap the flop heads up with overcards' (even out of position). and i mean OVERCARDS, not just ak. qj, kt, you name it.

34TheTruth34 · #6 04-17-2003, 01:31 PM

I saw the hand and was trying to figure out what hand you had. I agree that he might have been pushing an AK pretty hard to get to the river for free. But once you figured that out, why didn't you check-fold when the king came on the turn?

The game did seem pretty week. How about that guy that called you down with king high and won? What's up with that?

Jeffage · #7 04-17-2003, 05:40 PM

"I agree that he might have been pushing an AK pretty hard to get to the river for free. But once you figured that out, why didn't you check-fold when the king came on the turn?"

In case he had AQ or just any old ace...like I said, if I get raised I fold. Checking is basically surrendering the hand but the thing is, the check (in this type of aggressive game) can/will induce a bluff from any hand bc the pot odds are big enough to warrant it. I'd rather get raised once and know where I stand (just my opinion). Also, the King High hand made me sick....I seriously wanted to cry for a second but then I just started laughing...I mean, if not for calls like that getting that guy the pot 1% of the time, he wouldn't make them and I prob. wouldn't be on the run I'm on. I was actually going to post that hand to see how many bet the river....but then I thought, almost everyone would in that spot..what do u think? Also, the games at that level are VERY weak...I am only playing this high cause I was running good and due to that fact and the games being as good as they are...I haven't looked back yet.

Jeff

34TheTruth34 · #8 04-18-2003, 01:10 PM

yeah, I think betting the river is correct in the king high hand. you have nothing to showdown and he may have been on a draw himself. I think most of us would do that, and given his hand, you should have won the pot. What if you were betting ace high the whole way? That would have been funny. I wonder why he didn't raise instead?

Inthacup · #9 04-17-2003, 01:42 PM

I was mixing it up on the flop against an opponent I put on pushing AK for a free turn.

It seems like you conveniently forgot this fact on the turn. I do this sometimes. At one point in a hand I think "He has AK", then when a K comes I think "Maybe he has AQ". AQ AJ are the only hands you realistically beat. Maybe he's mixing it up as much as you are, but overall, this is a -EV play on the turn. I would check fold, but I wasn't in the game, so you have an extra feel for the hand that I don't. I hope you spiked a 6 on the river to beat his AK.

Jeffage · #10 04-17-2003, 05:42 PM

"AQ AJ are the only hands you realistically beat."

Or Ax...yes, these games are that good. Thx for comments..btw, we had a little mini-flame going in that one hand u had trips...no hard feelings on that one. My tone may have been a little rude, I was having a bad week...better now =).

Jeff