A splendid negotiation

[Tommy Angelo]

I like to think I'm a pretty good negotiator but I never would have thought to do what Ulysses and I witnessed my buddy Alex do at the $15-30 game at AJ's last night.

Alex had been playing $6-12, with a live $3 drop on the button. The $15-30 has a dead $3 drop on the button. That was the crux of Alex's confusion, when, in the $15-30 game, he had the button, and several players limped. I was on his immediate right, babbling in his ear. I folded behind the limpers. Alex said, "I call." The small blind completed for one chip. Then Alex said, "Wait. I was confused. Can I still fold?"

He had not put any chips in yet. I spoke up, intending to help. "Sure, you can fold. No one objects, right?" I sorta asked the table. Then Alex mucked. Ninety nine out of hundred, that would have been the end of it. Well, this was the one in a hundred time. There was one guy, a stranger, who did in fact object, as he was quite entitled to do, especially since there was action, albeit small, behind Alex's stated intention to call. The objector spoke up, and the floorman was called, and the situation was rehashed, accurately. The ruling was going to be that Alex must put $15 in the pot, even though he had no cards. I was thinking that maybe the guy who objected didn't really intend this to be the final resolution to the situation. Was he really so intent on being so jerkish? But by now I was in a self-imposed penalty box of silence.

Alex was thinking the same thing when he went around the horn, pointing to each active player, asking, "Do you care if I not put in the $15?" Each player, in turn, said they did not care. Alex saved the objector til last. The objector said, "Yes, I object. I want your $15 in the pot."

Alex said fine, no problem. Holding his three $5 chips, Alex went around the horn again, and he asked each player, "If you win the pot, will you give me my $15 back?" They all said yes, quickly and happily, except for the objector, who said, "I will not."

Alex said fine. He put in the $15 and the hand commenced. The objector folded on the flop which meant Alex was for sure going to get his $15 back, and all was well and right in the world.

Tommy

[astroglide]

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

and all was well and right in the world.

And then someone knocked over a glass of wine.....

Hell of a game all night. My favorite hand, I had pocket Aces on the button. I'm a calling station pre-flop and it's capped around me (5 bets) 4-ways. They trap me but good in the middle... The flop is all rags, well, all rags except for the Ace that makes my set, and once again, they trap me in the middle. I do nothing but call and it is capped around me, 3 ways this time. My one remaining opponent at the river finally wises up and check-calls me. Nice pot.

[Softrock]

I haven't been to AJs in years - might have to make a trip up there. Is 15-30 usually the biggest game they spread?

[Ulysses]

Is 15-30 usually the biggest game they spread?

Yeah. 15-30 is as big as it goes. Weekend evenings are pretty reliably good - and usually pretty high-action games. Weekdays/weeknights are hit and miss.

[jen]

The floorman over at AJs says that they often spread a NL game on Sunday nights after the NL tournament. I've never tried the game myself.

Also, they seem to often have only have one 15-30 running, and the people sit in there forever. Call in, and even then, you'll probably still have to play 6-12 for awhile.

And... I think playing T9s is okay in this game... [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

The floorman over at AJs says that they often spread a NL game on Sunday nights after the NL tournament. I've never tried the game myself.

After spreading it a few of the last weeks, they didn't run the NL game this past Sunday. Apparently the house feels it is bad for business because some regular players have gotten busted badly in the game and then don't come in and play for a while. At least that's the company line. I was told that they are looking into spreading something else - perhaps some type of higher spread-limit game. A number of regular players are interested in the NL game, so there's a chance they might reconsider and have it after all.

jen's advice to call in for the 15-30 is good.

[M2d]

They should spread a 30-60 if they want a bigger game. LC's kinda has the market cornered on the big bet games, but no one really gets a bigger mid-limit game down.

[SittingBull]

Hence,The floorman made the correct decision. Once Alex said : "I call",his statement is binding--EVEN if he made an honest mistake.
In addition,giving money back to players at the poker table can be construed as collusion--EVEN if it is NOT in this circumstance. One should ALWAYS try to maintain the integrity of casino poker games. Giving chips to other players at the table IS counter-productive in maintaining the integrity of the game ---regardless of the reason for doing so.
There is USUALLY a rule AGAINST giving chips back to players at the table.
However,the winner could ALWAYS leave the table and give Alex some cash from his pocket while they are both away from the table. In this case,it would be ethically OK since the intention was NOT to collude.
Tommy,did U say that U were whispering,saying something to another player(Alex?)while the latter was in an ACTIVE hand. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Doing so IS definitely unethical in a poker game. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
U should wait until the player becomes INACTIVE in the hand.
[img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
Happy pokering, [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
SittingBull

[andyfox]

"did U say that U were whispering,saying something to another player(Alex?)while the latter was in an ACTIVE hand."

He said he was babbling. If he said, "I folded the 7 of clubs and the 3 of spades," then that would be a no-no. He didn't. I don't know what he was babbling about, but knowing Tommy it was about something far more interesting than the particular poker hand.