The power of an Idea - The Long View.

[Zeno]

Today’s events in Iraq from a very broad and long-term perspective.

From Thomas Jefferson’s last letter (to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826), in which he had to decline being at the 50th celebration of the signing of the Declaration of Independence due to ill health (He died about a week later, on July 4, 1826).

“May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. That form which we have substituted, restores the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God. These are grounds of hope for others. For ourselves, let the annual return of this day forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them.”

[andyfox]

Noble words. Jefferson always talked a good game.

In 1814 Edward Coles wrote Jefferson, asking for support and encouragement in his personal campaign against slavery. Coles asked Jefferson to endorse his plan to take his slaves to Illinois and free them. Jefferson rebuffed his neighbor. In counseling Coles against freeing his adult slaves he said that people "of this color" were "as incapable as children of taking care of themselves." Free blacks were "pests in society." He spent himself into bankruptcy, selling slaves to raise money along the way. He had opportunities throughout his life to free some or all of his slaves, and only freed three, all of them members of the Hemings family, and thus Jefferson's own relatives. His will freed only five--also Hemings family members.

Saddles on their backs indeed.

[MMMMMM]

Maybe--I certainly don't know--maybe Jefferson, in that day and age, actually viewed blacks as being somewhat subhuman? I'm not excusing his ownership, but could it be that he genuinely thought they weren't capable of ruling themselves, and that they weren't fully human? If so, that could partially explain the apparent contradiction between his noble words and his selfish actions. If this is the case, part of the fault would lie with his erroneous view of blacks as inherently inferior beings--which might have not been an uncommon view at the time.

I do think your last line is particularly apropos: "Saddles on their backs indeed."

[adios]

Jefferson made a statement to the effect that he thought that there would be no way that the slaves could live in the United States as free men and that the end of slavery would mean that they would have to be returned to Africa. His reasoning was that the former slaves would be very bitter, violent and hateful due to their mistreatment under slavery. Jefferson did recognize that slaves were mistreated greatly. Jefferson seemed to be tormented by the dichotomy of what the Constitution stated and the reality of slavery. He seemed to lack the courage to change his ways regarding slavery. I'll try to dig up a source if it's required.

[Zeno]

Andy,

I am aware of Jefferson's shortcomings and much of your post is true. I am, however, a bit disappointed in you. A personal attack on Jefferson is not what I was hoping to solicit. However flawed you think Jefferson’s character – the noble words still stand. Noble words and great ideas have come from many bold people with somewhat dubious characters, Jesus, Moses, and Mohammed being excellent examples. I had no real wish to start down this path of debate as it detracts from what are the important and numerous ideas that “Good Old Boy” Tom put forth in his letter.

There are very large issues at stake in the world, and bold initiatives and policies have been set forth. Partly, I think, stemming from Jeffersonian ideas. It is the ideas that need to be discussed and debated - Not the Man.

Respectfully,

-Zeno

[MMMMMM]

No need for a source--I believe you--I was really just wondering (I never studied much history). Thanks for the information.

[MMMMMM]

I'm just curious, how was Jesus of dubious character, or on a par in this way compared with Mohammed? As I understand it, Jesus advocated turning the other cheek, whereas Muhammad advocated smiting people's necks and led military campaigns. I don't profess the faith of any organized religion but I am not aware of anything dubious about Jesus' character. Perhaps you could expand a bit on your statement.

[Zeno]

Tom,

At the risk of going off subject - some of Jefferson's ideas about emancipation (with the return to Africa idea) are put forth in a letter to Jared Sparks, dated February 4, 1824. Also, the letter Andy quotes has added information. Andy's short quotes appear harsher than would be the case if the whole letter were read in context. I have developed my own theory on his slavery stance. I have, however, no desire to propound it here.

-Zeno

[Cyrus]

You should take a look at a book written by Thomas West, a neo-conservative scholar who offers interesting, if radically contrarian, viewpoints. (He posits that the U.S. was progressing until the time of FDR, and started declining after the LBJ legislative measures!) In the process, the author offers evidence and arguments that contradict the established view that the Founding Fathers of the United States were as we believe them to have been.

<ul type="square">"Vindicating the Founders"[/list]
It's always good to listen to the opposite view.

[andyfox]

But the ideas, when not put into practice, are empty. And when the opposite of those ideas is put into practice, when the person who penned the ideas had numerous opporutunities in his lifetime, to make a stand, are worse than empty, their deceitful.

I have done a great deal of reading of both Jefferson's writings and writing about him, and I find him probably the most overrated American.

I am not as knowledgable about what Jesus and Moses did in their lifetimes, but my sense is that they had the courage of their convictions; Jefferson did not. So I am somewhat concerned when I see Jefferson quoted for his admirable thoughts when he lived a life of cowardice.