kk, aa early hand 109

[citanul]

two observed friend hands tonight, in honor of the many threads on correctly plying your big hands we have lately:

both just sat down, no reads on anyone involved with either hand, stacks even, blinds 10/15.

hand 1:

hero is dealt KK in the late middle position, mp raises to 50, hero raises to 150, button raises to 300, mp folds, hero?

hand 2:

hero is dealt aa in mp
utg raises to 30, hero raises to 100, bb calls, utg calls.

flop 824, two spades, hero has the As.

check, bet 75, hero raises to 175, bb checkraises all in, bettor folds, hero?

citanul

[johnnybeef]

1. push

2. call

[pearljam]

[ QUOTE ]
1. push

2. call

[/ QUOTE ]

[citanul]

come on man, let's have some guesses of what your opponent could have to go with those one word answers.

[johnnybeef]

well, in case one, the bet screams call me. but, i have a rule about folding kk preflop (for more information, check out hoh vol.1 chapter four [i'd find the exact page, but im 8 tabling currently], i figure if it is good enough for a world champ, its good enough for me.) in case 2, a check push like that is usually a draw, and with the ace of spades, you are never getting your money in dead.

[Myst]

Hand 1:

If the player was super solid, the mini3rd raise in is going to be AA-KK like 100% of the time. Since hero has KK, villain must have AA 99.9% of the time. However, since you have no reads, we cant go on that info. Hero must push, ala Harrington like reasoning.

Hand 2.

The fact that hero has the Ace of spades makes it LESS likely that the BB checkraised all in on a draw. This is either going to be an overpair or a made set. BB cold calls a reraise 100, which makes a higher overpair more likely than a made set, as logical opponents would fold 44 or 22, and only a loose one with 88. Hero must call.

[djj6835]

The first hand I would put villain on AA-QQ or AK and against really bad players you can throw in AQ AJ and pairs down to about tens.

The second hand could be a variety of hands, he could just have a flush draw or an overpair. He could also have a set although I would be surprised to see him push with a set so I think the other two options are more likely.

That said I push the first expecting to be ahead the majority of the time and call the second also expecting to probably have the best hand.

I don't know 109s, but if people play as transparently as you make it sound, I think you fold the second one. He could have a flush draw and be making a huge semibluff here after trying to check through for a free card, but your having the As makes that unlikely. So, he's representing a set. I don't know if at the 109s you can trust a player that much, but I'd certainly fold if I were playing with 2+2ers.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:

If the player was super solid, the mini3rd raise in is going to be AA-KK like 100% of the time. Since hero has KK, villain must have AA 99.9% of the time. However, since you have no reads, we cant go on that info. Hero must push, ala Harrington like reasoning.

Hand 2.

The fact that hero has the Ace of spades makes it LESS likely that the BB checkraised all in on a draw. This is either going to be an overpair or a made set. BB cold calls a reraise 100, which makes a higher overpair more likely than a made set, as logical opponents would fold 44 or 22, and only a loose one with 88. Hero must call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I didn't think about the fact that 109ers would fold small PPs preflop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[freemoney]

fold on 2nd hand would be awful against about 99.99999% of opponents, hand 1 screams AA but whatever if my biggest leak is not folding kk pre i can deal with that so i get it in there.