what do you think of each street?

[mike l.]

15-30 good game as usual 9 handed. 4 fish types limp, i call in the sb w/ J3o. bb pretty passive checks.

the flop is Jd8d2s. i check hoping to checkraise my monster and clear the field or check-fold if it comes back to me for two bets cold. instead bb bets 3players call and i call.

the turn is 6s. i bet, bb calls, cutoff calls.

river is Js. i bet.

comments on all streets appreciated. results later.

[Rick Nebiolo]

mike,

i hate to make these "long overcalls" of a lead bet and several calls with top mediocre pair no kicker and a dangerous board. in other words, the number of opponents may increase your pot odds but the chances you are best or even drawing live are diminished exponentially (well almost). even if you hit your "kicker" you will be paying off second best so often it just doesn't make sense to me. i don't make these overcalls but i'm open to arguement.

~ rick

[glen]

I fold on the flop here. I would try to check-raise the button, but once you have a multiway pot, I agree with rick that you may get trapped in here with the second best hand, and there's a lot of ways that can happen with this flop. I bet you won the hand, and probably got called by one or both players, but I would wait for better opportunities. I would probably check the river here, too, if you're against people who might not raise the flop with JTo, or J9, and then a busted draw might make a desperation bet.

[Ed Miller]

I would fold on the flop. You may have the best hand, but you easily may not and be drawing to 2-3 outs on a coordinated board. Even if you do have the best hand, there are a whole lot of turn cards you don't want to see, and you are first to act, leaving you betting into the field. If the pot were raised preflop, then the call would be better, but as it is... I think I would just dump it.

[bernie]

preflop. im not sure id complete this even if it was for only 1/3 a bet. suited i would. but this is truly a crap hand.

flop. fold youre putting way too much in for a possible 3 outer. what do you put a 'pretty passive' BB on that he is c/reraising with on the flop? would he do this with a draw? if so, what do the other bettors have then?

id wait for a better hand. btw...you do know that your kicker sucks, right?

cya

b

[andyfox]

With a flop of J-8-6 it's unlikely (though not impossible) anyone has two pair, and this likelihood is increased when nobody raises the big blind's flop bet. I don't think I could throw away top pair here getting 10:1.

Then again, I would have thrown the hand away pre-flop. Fruit plates are free at Commerce at the 15-30 level, the food servers really appreciate a $5 tip.

I like Mike's lead at the turn. With no raise, I'd feel somewhat better about my hand, but I would have planned to check it down without improvement on the river.

[Ulysses]

what do you put a 'pretty passive' BB on that he is c/reraising with on the flop?

Are you reading a different post, bernie? [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Ulysses]

Pre-flop: Don't like it. I love to call w/ just about anything in the 1-chip small blind, but hands like J3o I throw away because I think I lose more all the times I get stuck with second best than I make when it holds up. I'd much rather call 23o.

Flop: Well, BB may well have you beat with something like J7. I'd expect Jack/kicker to raise, though something like J9 might be out there. Still, I think hands like diamond draws, 9T and middle pair are more likely. I think you have to call here.

Turn: You're going to call, so might as well bet. BB may well fold J5, knowing he has kicker problems.

River: I would check it unimproved, but now that the Jack comes you can definitely get a call from A8. Good bet.

Here's the thing. You could easily still lose to J9 from one of the callers. I think you played well post-flop, but I think you get outkicked enough times that folding pre-flop is probably better.

[34TheTruth34]

[Ulysses]

Depending on the opponents, it might not be horrible to check-fold the turn if you don't improve....