Poker Math

GTSamIAm · #1 08-23-2005, 01:53 AM

What math would you say is required to understand every facet of poker math? I can look up equity and chances of winning online, but I want to know how to do it and other things. How much probability and statistics should I take? Included in that, shouldn't I take combinatorics? Would intro classes really teach me everything I'd ever want to know? Sorry for all the questions.

AaronBrown · #2 08-23-2005, 02:44 PM

Some basic probability logic is very useful. Combinatorics and statistics are handy for solving Poker problems, but you can learn what you need from calculations others have done.

It's important to really understand why you have half the chance of filling an inside straight draw as an open-ended straight draw, or why the number of outs is important. But you don't need advanced math for either of those things.

It's fun to calculate the probability of A2 beating a pair of 7's heads up in Hold'em, but for practical purposes you can look at statistics calculated by others to gauge the relative values of starting hands.

In my experience, people who are good at and enjoy doing math puzzles, ones that require only a little formal math but a lot of clear thinking, do better at the Poker table than great mathematicians. It's hard to be a good Poker player without any math sense, but the math you need is pretty basic.

spaminator101 · #3 08-23-2005, 04:47 PM

i agree with that i think that too many people today think that the most important skill in poker is math while i think it is really phycology as you get to more advanced games

Luzion · #4 08-23-2005, 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What math would you say is required to understand every facet of poker math? I can look up equity and chances of winning online, but I want to know how to do it and other things. How much probability and statistics should I take? Included in that, shouldn't I take combinatorics? Would intro classes really teach me everything I'd ever want to know? Sorry for all the questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get a probability book. The first few chapters teach you plenty.

Luzion · #5 08-23-2005, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with that i think that too many people today think that the most important skill in poker is math while i think it is really phycology as you get to more advanced games

[/ QUOTE ]

And why do you think "psychology" is the more important skill as you get to advanced games sir? Im not sure that makes much sense...

Nevermind, I just read some of your posts and it turns out you post a lot of crap that rarely makes much sense. No wonder your name is the Spaminator.

OrangeKing · #6 08-23-2005, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And why do you think "psychology" is the more important skill as you get to advanced games sir? Im not sure that makes much sense...

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of people want to hold on to the romantic view of poker, with big moves and huge bluffs being the key to success.

Or even worse, I've met some people who clearly only believe that "learning" isn't as important as "feeling" the game only because learning would require effort they don't want to give. But if they can convince themselves that learning is useless anyway, then they don't have to feel bad about not putting in the effort!

Neither of these may be the case for the Spaminator, but I've met plenty of people who fit into one or both of these categories.

Luzion · #7 08-23-2005, 08:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people want to hold on to the romantic view of poker, with big moves and huge bluffs being the key to success.

Or even worse, I've met some people who clearly only believe that "learning" isn't as important as "feeling" the game only because learning would require effort they don't want to give. But if they can convince themselves that learning is useless anyway, then they don't have to feel bad about not putting in the effort!

Neither of these may be the case for the Spaminator, but I've met plenty of people who fit into one or both of these categories.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what he meant. I was just questioning him because I was starting to get really irritated at his moronic and ignorant posts. You should read some of his older posts to get an idea of what I mean.

spaminator101 · #8 08-23-2005, 08:52 PM

well the math that you use during actual gameplay is fairly easy while the phycology just kills some people in higher stakes there is much more phycolgical war fare going on

and by the way im not using this as an excuse to not learn the math because i do do the math

Luzion · #9 08-23-2005, 09:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well the math that you use during actual gameplay is fairly easy while the phycology just kills some people in higher stakes there is much more phycolgical war fare going on

and by the way im not using this as an excuse to not learn the math because i do do the math

[/ QUOTE ]

What stakes do you play again?

BillC · #10 08-23-2005, 09:38 PM

As far as technical skills go, you need little more than grade school math, to do odds calculations, etc.. But as I say in my July magazine article the hard part about probability theory is really understanding concepts such as expectation and variance (among other things). I find that many players have an incomplete understanding of the basic principles, or do not exercise them in full faith. E.g. the advoccates of "taking a shot" overbetting your bankroll, are blatantly disregarding the math, but do it anyway. To some extent it is a matter of applying theory vs really understanding the theory.

If you want to go off the deep end, you can get into advanced stuff like game theory and stochastic processes. But those things are somewhat marginal for the actual play of the game, and are mostly for academic theorist types, like myself. As another poster said, you can just believe results others have obtained.