Fold?

Buccaneer · #1 08-17-2005, 09:25 AM

I really, really, really wanted to play this hand. The whole table was >50% pre-flop except for MP1. He seemed to play solid. I believed his raise but not CO's 3 bet. When MP1 raised my plan was to see the flop for one raise and fold if not improved or if I saw another reason to stay in. CO made it more expensive that I wanted so I folded to MP1's cap.

Do you think I should have bailed on MP1's first raise?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, Hero folds, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (19.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Jd Jc (one pair, jacks).
CO has xh xh (an evil pair he did not pick up till the turn).
Outcome: CO wins 17.75 BB.

tiltaholic · #2 08-17-2005, 09:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I really, really, really wanted to play this hand. The whole table was >50% pre-flop except for MP1. He seemed to play solid. I believed his raise but not CO's 3 bet. When MP1 raised my plan was to see the flop for one raise and fold if not improved or if I saw another reason to stay in. CO made it more expensive that I wanted so I folded to MP1's cap.

Do you think I should have bailed on MP1's first raise?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, Hero folds, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (19.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Button folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Jd Jc (one pair, jacks).
CO has xh xh (an evil pair he did not pick up till the turn).
Outcome: CO wins 17.75 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

dude. that's really really really bad.
3-bet pf or fold it. i'd 3-bet unless i had a strong solid read MP only raised big pairs pf, and i never have that solid of a read.

i can't think of any routine situations where you would cold call 2 bets preflop and then fold to a cap in a 5 way pot.

if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

also, not getting married to TT is good, but don't fold to 2 bets pf in a huge multiway pot.

edit: for spelling and to add reallys

Buccaneer · #3 08-17-2005, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

[ QUOTE ]
dude. that's really really really bad.
3-bet pf or fold it. i'd 3-bet unless i had a strong solid read MP only raised big pairs pf, and i never have that solid of a read.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you are saying that I lost my balls I think I must agree.

Redd · #4 08-17-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't actually change the decision. With 5 people in the pot, you're easily getting odds to draw to a set. You're about 7.5:1 to flop a set and your draw will be something like 18:2 with great implied odds. You have the odds to call pf and fold the flop without a set if you want (and it is possible you're still beating AK if a low naked flop comes).

Plus, I would 3-bet this myself, because it's a great hand and you can protect against overs.

tiltaholic · #5 08-17-2005, 10:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

so do people only raise preflop with JJ-AA?

Buccaneer · #6 08-17-2005, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:

Quote:
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

so do people only raise preflop with JJ-AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not!

SSHE, pg. 82, WWSD (What Would Sklansky Do) Against a Raise AND a reraise you play TT. I suck, but not as bad as last week.

bottomset · #7 08-17-2005, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

so do people only raise preflop with JJ-AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

thats all I raise [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Jaran · #8 08-17-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you "believed" MP1's raise, what does that mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought he had a PP that was better than mine. When he capped I was sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

so do people only raise preflop with JJ-AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

thats all I raise [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you changing your name to Shill?

-Jaran

davelin · #9 08-17-2005, 09:33 AM

Your fold is terrible and shows a misunderstanding of pocket pairs.

Buccaneer · #10 08-17-2005, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Your fold is terrible and shows a misunderstanding of pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

davelin, no need to sugar coat it!

Seriously-your brutal honesty has motivated me to reread that section of the SSHE bible.