2plus2er Sandwich with a Side of Foldslaw?

[Jeffage]

Playing 10 Hold Em at the Taj Mahal..there's an internet poker convention thing going on and I get the pleasure of playing some hands with 2plus2er Baltimore Ron (real nice guy btw). Anyway, here's the hand. I have Kc3c in the BB. 3 players inc. Baltimore Ron limp, SB folds, I check. Flop comes Qc-Jx-2c. I bet, VERY loose player calls, Baltimore Ron Calls, one other calls. Turn is the Jc giving me the flush and pairing the board. I bet, loosie calls, Ron pops it. Ugh, images of QJ in my head but he could just have dry trips. So I call, now loosies comes over the top and makes it 60. Ron calls, I call. How many people can muck in this spot for one bet honestly...can I possibly be beating both of them here? Anyway, river is a horror card, the 2x double pairing the board. I check, loosie checks while saying "bet ur goddamned jack" to Ron in a disgusted tone, Ron bets, I fold, loosie calls. Ron shows J10 for a rivered boat and the other guy mucks claiming he had the ace high flush. So who calls the 2nd turn raise...I'm interested bc without the river of death I prob have to pay off again as well. Just wondering how many of you can lay down here...

Jeff

[astroglide]

online i would definitely call, and at a casino i COULD definitely fold as a default action unless i had a good reason to believe i should call.

i don't mind knowing i folded to AcJh and JTo combined after i see the showdown. the fact that ron can reraise this makes it a not-so-tough fold.

[Clarkmeister]

Why didn't you consider 3 betting the turn? I think you were overconcerned about Ron's hand. However, once you call and the other player limp-3 bets, you are beat >95% of the time.

[Jeffage]

Astro,

The loose player in the middle reraised, not Ron. He called my turn bet, then after Ron raised and I called, he reraised. That's a superman move in my book. You say u would call online...is that because games are more aggressive there...I play 5-10 and 10-20 online also. My thoughts are I may be beating one of these players but not both..

Jeff

[Jeffage]

I considered it but looking at the board and action didn't think it wise. I say Ron would raise the loose limper preflop with AJ...so I'm ahead of KJ-J10, drawing dead to QJ, ace high flush of if Ron flopped bottom set. If the board was J-9-3, turn J, I propably would reraise the turn but I just got a gut read at the time I was beat by one of these guys. I don't fault ur logic though.

Jeff

[astroglide]

right, but ron could have reraised again

and yes, i call online because the players are much bigger nutjobs

[elysium]

hi jeff,
you must fold on the turn here. yea i know, but the deciding factor on this one (hey, i'm starting to type with both hands as i type this. must be getting better.) yea, the deciding factor on this one is, well jeff it's a combination. there's a fairly glaring bad combo here.

let me take a look at this thing. o.k., you know how the SB is always picking on you? well, on the turn you can get a little payback here. you're allowed to call in this spot because of the glare. this may have helped out some, although you're going to lose a little here.

yea, the deciding factor here is position, only we are attacking our positional weakness by another means. in some spots we raise, and in other spots we check. and of course you would fold on the river.

[mikelow]

Make that a side of steak, because you really have to fold this
on the river with two-pair on the board and the check reraise on the turn.

If you are still ahead on the turn, there are still many ways to
lose. Combined with the likelihood of being beat already, this is an easy fold.

[SoBeDude]

I think his medication wore off

[Bob T.]

But he has paragraphs now [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] !