how about some marginal posts? 78o 20/40 online hand

[astroglide]

first round in the game, i know it's generally loose/aggressive and recognize more than a few of the players. the average percentage of the players seeing the flop in the last 20 hands is 46%.

i'm in the bb w/7s8c. there is a cutoff poster. utg+2 openraises, 2 mp calls, poster calls, sb calls, i call.

flop is 7c Kc 6h. sb checks, i check, raiser bets, 1 fold, 1 call, 2 more folds, i call

turn is Ac. i check, raiser bets, other calls, i CALL.

river is 8h, i BET, raiser folds, other calls.

[Buckshot]

I don't think you can call on the flop or the turn, but that's me.

~stephen

[astroglide]

interesting that you don't disgaree preflop, but you do on the flop.

by the time the action gets to me on the turn i have to call $20 with $280 in the pot. this is well above what i need to call with 5 outs (i see the buffer as 'set insurance'). both of my outs are completely clean, since the 7c is on board and the 8c is in my hand. i'm not terribly concerned about a flush at this point given the amount of players that have dropped anyway.

i capitalized the turn and river play because those are the debatable plays for me.

[mike l.]

when my game is on, the turn is where i dump this. the chances im drawing dead are just too strong.

[Buckshot]

I believe the flop call is easy, IMHO. You have 5 outs on the flop.

I think the turn is where you must dump the hand. Now none of your 5 outs might be clean! Do you see? You'd really have to fudge some numbers here and incorporate some fuzzy logic.

But, hey, nice hand sir. Well played.

~stephen

[astroglide]

"I don't think you can call on the flop or the turn"

now the flop call is easy? that was your quote.

mp calling made this call for me. i don't believe for a second that the preflop raiser has a flush, and mp failing to raise shows me that he doesn't have one either. my biggest fear is a set from the raiser, and i can pick that off with a flush. if he bets a flush card on the river and the other guy calls, i can fold.

[Buckshot]

Yes, I was mistaken about the flop call, but I'm still going to hold my ground with the turn fold. Since there's nothing clear cut on the turn, which is what makes this a good post, you have to figure from 5 outs to ~3(?).

Either way I think there's a case for the way you played it. I just wouldn't play it, that's all. It's too close for me to make this call and have it be profitable in the long run.

~stephen

[M.B.E.]

<font color="purple">I think the turn is where you must dump the hand. Now none of your 5 outs might be clean! Do you see? You'd really have to fudge some numbers here and incorporate some fuzzy logic.</font color>

I don't understand this point. Yes, it's possible astroglide could have been drawing dead on the turn, to a flush or A7 or whatever, but it's not very likely. Chances are that at least two of his outs (the sevens) are "clean", and probably all five.

Note that the bettor on the flop and the turn was the same guy who raised preflop. That means you have no particular reason to put him on clubs for the turned flush. It's much more likely he's betting a king or an ace.

(If the preflop raiser had checked the turn and someone else had bet, then there's a legitimate reason to be worried about a flush.)

I agree with astroglide's play on all streets. I would have played it the same way.

In particular, I always call a raise in the big blind with 87o when it will be a fiveway pot. I know that some good players would usually fold in that spot, but I don't see how that could be correct.

[Buckshot]

It's much more likely he's betting a king or an ace.

Or how about AK or KK or AA?

~stephen

[mikelow]

I think this is an easy call preflop and on the flop. You are completing the action. On the turn, it's a bit debatable but you can call, but you're in. Nice hand.