Am I just rubbish or is it the 6s at Party?

[usmhot]

Relative newbie - only been playing online for about 6 months.
Since finding 2+2 I've been reading as much as I can fit in and it really changed my game.
I'm playing tight/aggressive in the early rounds, widening my range a little later and trying to steal blinds on the bubble. I'm not bad at working out the pot odds (need a little more practice to get used to working out implied odds). I have no problem throwing away pp from bad position to aggressive action with good reads and even AA to a scary flop with good reads.
So, here's the thing - maybe I'm on a normal downswing and just getting bad beats, BUT it seems to me that the 6s are so full of maniacs that no amount of proper play will help!!!
Typical hand ... from memory

7 handed 5+1, round 3
Hero(approx t500) in EP with A10 limped in
SB(approx t400) limped in
BB(approx t3000) checks

Flop - 10, 7, J (rainbow - one of them clubs)
Hero goes all-in
SB calls all-in
BB calls all-in

SB shows Q 10
BB shows 45s (clubs)

River and Turn bring clubs giving the BB the flush and knocking me and SB out.

Now, I know its a bad beat ... and everyone gets them all the time.
But, the thing is, what was the BB doing calling two all-ins with 2 missing from a flush draw???
Is this the sort of play I've gotta accept at the 6s??
Or am I playing too tight myself?? The number of times I've thrown away mediocre hole cards and watched people win with a lot less is killing me!!!
What have I got to do?

Should I move to the 11s or even 22s in the hope that the cards are played properly?
Or am I just a donk who should give up now?

[yabastid]

Fold A10 from EP with your stack.
Where did your other 300 in chips go if your playing tight. Why did you push that?

[usmhot]

Other 300 chips went on hands like JJ in EP with AKQ coming on the flop. (Think I played that one pretty standard - raised to 4BB pf, but had to throw away to bets on that flop.)

Pushed the A10 on the flop because
the SB checked - pretty standard player, would have bet TP
BB checked - was normally aggressive with any high pair

I was pretty sure I had them both beaten on the flop (and, indeed I did!!) and wanted to scare away anyone looking to pair up an overcard - never even expected someone would play to a long-shot flush draw or straight draw.

[ChuckyB]

Moving up is never the answer. They don't play as stupid...they just play much better. The difference between the 11s and 6s on Party is noticeable.

You might think you're playing tight, but that AT push 7-handed is not tight. Pushing second pair in level 3 ain't tight.

The donkeys are annoying. So just wait them out, then use your good 2+2 skills when the game tightens up -- around bubble time. Play your great hands hard and whomp them when you have to early.

Here's my story from an 11 yesterday...

Level 1, 1st hand...
UTG+2 raises to 55...
2 folds...
MP raises to 200...
folds...
BB pushes all-in.
UTG+2 calls
MP calls.

BB pushed with A9o...UTG+2 had TT, MP had JJ.

I had folded and watched MP donk off the chips he won over the next 6 levels. The donkeys are where your profit comes from.

When you can beat the donkeys at the 6s...then think about moving up.

[yabastid]

I don't think you played your JJ hand standard. From EP early in a tourny limping is a better option. But, back to this hand. The problem with making a move like this at the $6 level is you're gonna get called by Jx. I also question how accurate your read was when you get called by a back door flush/straight draw. This should just prove to you that at the $6's you really want to push your good hands and fold your marginal ones. So fold that crap PF from EP and you won't get yourself into this situation.

[tigerite]

We have this JJ debate at least once a week. Raising and limping are both fine plays. I personally prefer to raise from EP with it. Neither are wrong or right. It's just preference and style.

Fold A-10 here 7 handed with 10bb. If this is tight I must be a rock

[Lucid1]

I agree. I'd definitely fold that AT preflop in early position on level 3 with a stack like that.

I'm guessing you have some holes that needs to be fixed. There's no rush to move up. It certainly won't get easier with a higher percentage of good players on the tables...

Also,

[ QUOTE ]

I have no problem throwing away pp from bad position to aggressive action with good reads and even AA to a scary flop with good reads.


[/ QUOTE ]

There's a lot of times throwing away a PP is correct - but I think throwing away AA on a scary flop very rarely is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (I think the last time I did something like that was about 2000 tournies ago [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

As long as you make a good raise preflop with your AAs (which I hope you do) - so that you don't let in to many players to see the flop - there are very few flops I'd fold with AA...

[ QUOTE ]

Should I move to the 11s or even 22s in the hope that the cards are played properly?


[/ QUOTE ]

Luckily there are tons of people who doesn't play properly in the 11s and 22s, too.. If you have the bankroll for it, moving up to the 11s is ok (since paying 20% rake is a little too much) - but moving up beyond that would be silly until you have fixed your leaks and are consistently making money in the 11s..

Good luck!

[tigerite]

There are tons that don't even play the 33's properly. Or even close.

[good2cu]

You shouldn't move up to the 10s or 20s because the cards although not played "properly", are played more properly then the 5s.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't move up to the 10s or 20s because the cards although not played "properly", are played more properly then the 5s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. I'd much prefer to play on a table with idiots seeing too many flops, calling too many bets etc than one with tight aggressive players. I can do well on both, but I have much more chance of getting all the chips of the donks early on.