NL200 6max - Butchered AA on a KKx board?

vanHelsing · #1 08-11-2005, 08:19 AM

Button is a donk and he is the reason for the rest of us to be at the table.
BB calls too many raises PF, but usually has a strong hand when it comes to showdown. Far from a habitual thief, but good enough to steal occasionally.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($323.45)
MP ($285.65)
CO ($193.50)
Button ($166.20)
SB ($174.73)
BB ($778.28)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, Button calls $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($25) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $5, BB calls $5, Hero calls $5.

Why did I check? Board is drawless as can be, so it's a way ahead, way behind situation and I don't want to play a big pot on this board. Feigning weakness looked best to extract most of Button donk. Downside: it might set up BB for a steal...

Turn: ($40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, Button calls $20, BB raises to $100, Hero folds, Button folds.

Fold is clear, right? I don't think I can push him of a weak king and he folds if he is behind. + Donk still to act and even donks get dealt trips.

I felt nitty after this one. Any suggestions about my line which feels somehow weird. Did I set myself up to get bullied of the hand?

TheWorstPlayer · #2 08-11-2005, 08:21 AM

Multi-way, I probably check again on the turn. I'm not afraid of a draw at all, I might be behind, and I have the best relative position.

vanHelsing · #3 08-11-2005, 08:25 AM

I remeber thinking about this as well. But checking twice somehow underrepresents my hand. Now let's say I check, Donk bets 20, BB makes it 60, I still don't know where I am and have a difficult decission.

TheWorstPlayer · #4 08-11-2005, 08:43 AM

Are you kidding? What do you think they are betting/raising with? It's not like the 'good' hand is hidden. If it goes bet, raise, you can easily fold. That's what I meant about having the best relative position.

vanHelsing · #5 08-11-2005, 09:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? What do you think they are betting/raising with? It's not like the 'good' hand is hidden. If it goes bet, raise, you can easily fold. That's what I meant about having the best relative position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's this easy. Put yourself in the shoes of BB.
If Donk bets, this basicly means Donk has 2 cards. I would prolly raise this as BB with any pocket pair, to drive the 2 time checking PFR out. And as I said, BB is a good NL200er and easily capable of doing stuff like this. That's why I bet out turn, something like a turn blocking bet.

TheWorstPlayer · #6 08-11-2005, 09:43 AM

Would you make that move there? No way I'm making that move against even a donk betting a 3-way pot on two streets against a preflop raiser who could very easily be checking AK here twice.

vanHelsing · #7 08-11-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you make that move there? No way I'm making that move against even a donk betting a 3-way pot on two streets against a preflop raiser who could very easily be checking AK here twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I read PFR as weak/tight (which possibly was my image so far), yes I occasionally would.
And he is more the tricky kind of player than I am.

TheWorstPlayer · #8 08-11-2005, 10:02 AM

If I read PFR as weak/tight it is LESS reason to make the move. What can a weak/tight preflop raiser be calling with on that board? It HAS to be AA/KK/AK/KQ.

fimbulwinter · #9 08-11-2005, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Button is a donk and he is the reason for the rest of us to be at the table.
BB calls too many raises PF, but usually has a strong hand when it comes to showdown. Far from a habitual thief, but good enough to steal occasionally.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($323.45)
MP ($285.65)
CO ($193.50)
Button ($166.20)
SB ($174.73)
BB ($778.28)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, Button calls $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($25) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $5, BB calls $5, Hero calls $5.

Why did I check? Board is drawless as can be, so it's a way ahead, way behind situation and I don't want to play a big pot on this board. Feigning weakness looked best to extract most of Button donk. Downside: it might set up BB for a steal...

Turn: ($40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, Button calls $20, BB raises to $100, Hero folds, Button folds.

Fold is clear, right? I don't think I can push him of a weak king and he folds if he is behind. + Donk still to act and even donks get dealt trips.

I felt nitty after this one. Any suggestions about my line which feels somehow weird. Did I set myself up to get bullied of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

the turn bet makes no sense to me, esp cos you have the dang a[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. coulda saved yourself 20 bucks by checking and folding when facing the inevitable raise.

after the action on the flop, you're ahead here like never.

fim

vanHelsing · #10 08-11-2005, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I read PFR as weak/tight it is LESS reason to make the move. What can a weak/tight preflop raiser be calling with on that board? It HAS to be AA/KK/AK/KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on TWP, only call a $5 bet on a $35 pot with these stacks with AA/KK/AK/KQ? About any PP is worth the call.