Freakin Jacks

djoyce003 · #1 08-09-2005, 10:21 AM

Ok...over 40k hands jacks are about the only pocket pair i'm losing with....so I thought i'd pose hands over the next couple of days.

Just didn't know what to do here out of position. I really don't like reraising this out of position because if he plays back at me I'm not really sure what to do. Once the flop fell I checked because I knew the guy on my left would take a small stab at it...if the preflop raiser just called it I was going to re-raise really big...that didn't happen, I figured he had an overpair so I folded...just didn't want to play a big pot here. The only problem is that the button is fairly agressive but I haven't seen him do anything too crazy post flop yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP ($96)
CO ($60.90)
Button ($133.35)
Hero ($238.23)
BB ($336.54)
UTG ($98)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
3 folds, Button raises to $4, Hero (poster) calls $3.50, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Button raises to $14, Hero folds, BB calls $9.

Turn: ($40) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Button bets $40, BB folds.

Final Pot: $80

fuzzbox · #2 08-09-2005, 10:49 AM

Pretty weak play against a button raise with a pair of jacks. Then you let it go pretty easy on the flop when you could be good (might not be).

I mix it up between repopping preflop and playing it hard on the flop, and calling and seeing a flop. I like that particular flop though, and I might get involved a little bit to see whats going on. I probably call the 14 (as button is pretty much just ignoring the BB and betting pot), and lead the turn.

kongo_totte · #3 08-09-2005, 11:00 AM

My standard line is to re-raise pretty big pre-flop. You are right, it's a bitch playing jacks OOP, so I'd rather just end it pre-flop. If he 3-raises I let go without some special read. As played pre-flop, I like a lead here.

Mackerel · #4 08-09-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just didn't know what to do here out of position. I really don't like reraising this out of position because if he plays back at me I'm not really sure what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I usually play back big from the blind after a button raise here. Most of the time, I'd make it about $15 to go after the button raises and the SB calls. If they want to take a flop with position on me, they're going to have to pay for it. If either comes back over the top hard PF, I can let jacks go with confidence.

Given that you just called pre-flop, why not lead the flop for a PSB? If you get raised big you can release. If you get called in one spot, lead 1/2 pot on a non-threatening turn. Probably check/fold the turn if you get called in two places.

In general, I prefer playing back preflop to avoid difficult decisions OOP on the flop.

Ghazban · #5 08-09-2005, 11:27 AM

I don't mind the preflop call (as opposed to a reraise) but I don't like your flop plan. If button is aggressive (as you say he is), you know he doesn't need a big hand to raise BB's weak lead (which you also saw coming). If you want to play a big pot, check/3betting is an excellent plan but, since you didn't, leading out would've been much better as it would keep the pot a manageable size at the point when you have to make a decision (as a raise of PSB would tell you with higher certainty that your jacks are no good whereas now the pot is already large and you have no idea if they're good).

djoyce003 · #6 08-09-2005, 11:29 AM

yeah you are exactly right...I should have led the pot, that would have let me have a better idea of where I was. I was really hoping i'd see weak lead/call but that didn't happen...it's what I get for playing like a wimp.

Ghazban · #7 08-09-2005, 11:39 AM

Thinking about it a little more...

If button is pretty good, a check/3bet could be a good (though high-variance) play, too. Coming over the top of two people would represent great strength (i.e. a set on a board like this one) and a decent player should fold even aces if you took that line (not that he necessarily would, mind you). However, this can only work if you know BB and button don't need big hands to take their actions but they don't know the same about you (if button knows BB's weak lead is meaningless and knows you know, it could fall apart; if BB doesn't know button could raise his weak lead with air, it could also fall apart).

djoyce003 · #8 08-09-2005, 12:08 PM

yeah button definitely won't fold to a big threebet if he has AA. He called an allin with top pair of queens with a king kicker. That limits that option somewhat. Although when he made the call mentioned above, he was semi-shortstacked, he isn't anymore.

Ghazban · #9 08-09-2005, 12:24 PM

My last post was pretty much FPS incarnate. I don't expect a play like that to work ever in these low limit online games but I think its interesting to recognize the option and articulate the conditions under which it would/wouldn't work even if its not practical.

Man, work's been slow today.....