TP: I bet, he calls. I bet, he calls. I bet, he .. Raises!?

GrandmaStabone · #1 08-07-2005, 02:16 AM

No reads on villain.

1.) what do you do in this situation with no reads

2.) against a LAG?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

the pot is giving me 8-1 on the river, it's big - but not THAT big... I hate it when villains pull the call call raise line, it signals that they improved and w TP I cannot beat any hand that has improved. Many times it's read based, or dictated by a really big pot; Here however it really was neither, so what would be standard?

shadow29 · #2 08-07-2005, 02:29 AM

uh i almost never bet/fold riv w/ tp.

i hate this line by opp too. i bet he flopped 2 pr. what a fucker.

but to answer your question, barring a specific read, calling is standard here.

AlmightyJay · #3 08-07-2005, 03:22 AM

I call. I figure he's got 55, JJ, or 99 most of the time, but he might be doing a random donk bluff enough to make this a call.

fluxrad · #4 08-07-2005, 03:27 AM

grunching.

1. w/ no reads, I check/call the river. You're not going to get called by much that you beat here. In the above case, the river raise indicates that you're beat. I think I fold to that raise.

2. Against a LAG, I still check/call the river, but I'd probably call the raise above.

I'm guessing villain showed KTo

bottomset · #5 08-07-2005, 03:29 AM

its an easy call against a LAG

against a normal .5/1 donk, I'm thinking folding is better, your kicker doesn't play so you chop with a random wait till the river raise A2, and you don't beat much else .. from my experience its very rare for a river raise like this to ever not beat TPNK ...

dozer · #6 08-07-2005, 06:38 AM

with no reads you should call this.

Against a LAG, you should check the river to induce a bluff.

_bustedflush_ · #7 08-07-2005, 07:28 AM

My standard has been to call this, but this happened several times last night and TP went down in flames each time. This week I filter PT for "went to showdown" and see how this usually plays out. I don't have a big sample size, but my gut is that it is a rare micro player that pulls this as a bluff.

#8 08-07-2005, 07:44 AM

1) without reads I play the flop and turn the way you did and c/c the river (trying to make a hand bluff that wouldn't have called had I bet and making sure I don't get raised because I want to show my hand down and the board is fairly coordinated).

2) Against a LAG: bet the flop; c/c the turn; c/c the river.

numeri · #9 08-07-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
w/ no reads, I check/call the river. You're not going to get called by much that you beat here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You'll often get calls with some random pair.

[ QUOTE ]
In the above case, the river raise indicates that you're beat. I think I fold to that raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, though I rarely do. If it's a leak, it's not a horrible one. (At least, that's how I justify it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

#10 08-07-2005, 11:35 AM

I haven't read other replies...

This happens to me often, especially with loose passive players. Sometimes it's a slow play with a set, sometimes they paired up their 9 to give them 9s & 5s.

I usually make a crying call here. I'm pretty sure it's -EV, but it is hard to fold for 1 more bet, and if I fold here too often, people might notice and stat taking advantage.

On the other hand, the pot is very small, so I might find a fold here, more likely against loose-passive than a LAG, As a general rule, I'll call a river bet if pot odds are ~9:1 or better & fold if less.

Art