Turn...

krishanleong · #1 07-29-2005, 06:14 PM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls...

Like it?

Krishan

Willluck · #2 07-29-2005, 06:18 PM

FPS? The players behind may have improved, plus it's pretty clear that one of them is also on a flush draw. I think you have to raise this here, unless someone behind you is agressive enough to raise a ace, but even then...
Edit: confusion with pf action, got rid of "weak" describing ace.
Reedit: anyone 3-bet pf?

krishanleong · #3 07-29-2005, 06:22 PM

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plus it's pretty clear that one of them is also on a flush draw.

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I don't think this is a good assumption.

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unless someone behind you is agressive enough to raise a ace,

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Hand range the preflop raiser for me.

Krishan

Stack · #4 07-29-2005, 06:22 PM

Flop...I would bet and hope pfr raises.

Not having done that, call {edit: the turn}I guess

krishanleong · #5 07-29-2005, 06:24 PM

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Flop...I would bet and hope pfr raises.

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I hate it. Why would I do that?

Krishan

JrJordan · #6 07-29-2005, 06:25 PM

That's such a great turn card on so many levels. Smooth call lets an aggressive MP raise his Ax hand, you get to trap a bazillion callers when you raise, and all is right with the world. Having limped along on the flop, this is exactly how I'd play it.

That being said, I'd probably get impatient and spring the trap early with a flop 3-bet after SB raises. If they're passive enough, you can get at least 2 of the 3 to go to the turn with you for 3-bets, and perhaps induce a cap from MP if he has an overpair.

Catt · #7 07-29-2005, 06:28 PM

I don't play 10/20, but I might prefer just raising the turn here. If MP has a big A (auto-betting the flop) he might 3-bet; if he does not, he may fold to SB's bet whether you raise or not or just call along (I suspect he folds without a FD). Button is curious in that he's CCing PF and then calling one at a time on the flop. SB looks pretty happy with his hand, and unless he has 78 you're in a good spot to extract some bets here. If a spade falls on the river, there's not only a chance you're beat, but a significant chance you won't have an opportunity to go multiple bets with the winning hand - and any FD is calling 2 here anyway. I'd come out of my shell and show some aggression here on the turn and kick myself if I somehow learn that MP would have raised allowing me to either 3-bet or cap.

I'd especially prefer raising the turn if your opponents don't know you and you've been at the table a short time -- your raise would look like a goof with an A who now thinks he's best.

tizim · #8 07-29-2005, 06:31 PM

Look at the board and pot size. You're giving players beautiful odds/implied odds to draw to any a 7 or 9 or spade.

I generally just 3-bet the flop, but calling is good too to let MP draw to overcards or 3-bet with an overpair.

If you call the flop, though, you have to raise the turn. Even if he has an Ace, he won't necessarily raise, and he often doesn't even have the ace. Letting only 1 BB go in on this turn with so many draws, such a big pot, and such a strong hand is terrible. If he has an A, you'll still get a guaranteed 2 bets out of him anyway.

Basically, you're risking way too much on the turn to win just a few more bets on the parlay that he a) has an ace and b) will raise with it, and c) he won't 3-bet it.

weevil · #9 07-29-2005, 07:02 PM

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Flop...I would bet and hope pfr raises.

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I hate it. Why would I do that?

Krishan

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Given your lack of player reads, that's a good question. If you pay attention though, maybe you'll find out that MP likes to auto bet/raise the flop after raising PF. Then you'll get over trying to build a huge pot with a somewhat vulnerable hand 4way, and worry more about winning the hand, and make the other two face 2 cold, and get a cr in on the turn.

Or maybe you've noticed that he slowplays or is somewhat passive when someone donks him on the flop, and you'll wait until the turn to cr most cards and get two big bets from everyone.

These are flop thoughts btw, and since you're worried about the turn given the way you played the flop, I'm a big fan of giving people 10:1 immediate, and greater implied, letting all gutshots and flush draws call profitably, and having SB possibly check the river not letting us get a raise in and having everyone fold their missed draws. This is probably the line that makes the least and risks the most imo.

Willluck · #10 07-29-2005, 07:02 PM

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plus it's pretty clear that one of them is also on a flush draw.

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I don't think this is a good assumption.

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maybe not a flush draw, but a draw nontheless, and you're giving him pretty great odds to call with his gutter if MP doesn't raise.

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unless someone behind you is agressive enough to raise a ace,

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Hand range the preflop raiser for me.

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I would like to take my previous statement back, I think I wrote that still thinking SB raised pf. I think you have to raise though, cuz MP will call with an ace and maybe raise.
edit: I usually 3 bet this hand PF too, how is that?