6-max JJ

Ghazban · #1 07-25-2005, 06:38 PM

Villain has only been here two orbits and hasn't done anything remarkable. Comments appreciated on all streets. Specifically, what range of hands do you put villain on at each action?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

UTG ($31.80)
MP ($52.64)
Hero ($308.15)
Button ($207.25)
SB ($167)
BB ($164.51)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero raises to $6, Button calls $6, SB (poster) calls $5, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($24) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $15, Button calls $15, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($54) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero raises to $85, Button calls $55.

There was a fairly long pause before button called the checkraise.

River: ($224) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $102, Button calls all-in

Again, a fairly long pause before button calls all-in.

Final Pot: $224

jkkkk · #2 07-25-2005, 06:52 PM

I don't understand why you lead the river, what do you think you are beating that calls a CR on the turn?

Edit: I swear I saw a blank on the turn when I read the hand, i'm guessing 77-99.

Malachii · #3 07-25-2005, 06:58 PM

Eh, I guess this is okay. Villain's range of hands here is pretty small, 77-99 or QQ here. I'm assuming AA or KK repops it preflop, but that might be a dangerous assumption. I could see Villain calling that river bet with a medium pocket pair.

RiverFenix · #4 07-25-2005, 06:58 PM

I dont get the underbetting on flop, turn. Were you expecting the turn c/r to get villian out of hand?

I feel like you left yourself with too much on the river when the only cards you wouldnt want to see are the other 10, A-K, Q?. I can see folding for 100 if one of these cards fell on the river, but Id rather have it pretty much be a non decision once you fill up on the turn.

Hand range is tough here, but I cant see you being ahead more than 50% of the time after him calling on all streets. Unless he thinks youve been overplaying overcards and is hoping something like 77 holds up (which seems unlikely).

Im guessing villian has 99. I discount a T because of the turn bet and QQ-AA seems way too passive in pos, especially PF and flop

98romaine · #5 07-25-2005, 07:00 PM

Preflop and flop there is a pretty broad range of hands to put villion on, and with that flop a good player may play any two until the turn with intent of taking it away there with a big bet. Once he calls your c/r on the turn and does not raise, he either has the 10 or a smaller PP.The only different line I think you can take is to check call the river, if goes all in on the river for his last ~$100 or so you're getting 3:1 on the call with decent chance you're holding the best hand.

joeg · #6 07-25-2005, 08:02 PM

Before I start I should just add a little disclaimer, I'm not very good at this game and post because the act of analysing someone elses hands helps improve my own game by leaps and bounds, so my opinions are just that and I welcome any constructive critism. With the disclaimer out of the way this is my take on the hand.

I dont really like the turn checkraise, your opponents hand can be split into 3 categories

1) He has you drawing dead or thin, either with the case ?10, 33 or QQ-AA.

2) He has a smaller pocket pair and thinks it might be good.

3) He is bluffing, but his hand may contain 1 or maybe 2 overcards that can draw out to beat you.

By check raising the turn in situation 1) you end up with 2 situations, a) your opponent raises all in, which I think is a pretty easy fold, or b) your opponent just calls, then your have tricky situation on the river, the only hands you can hope to bluff are AA - QQ which are possible but given the action I would say are less likely than 33 or ?T , but for any smaller pair to call given the action is unlikely so a check is probably be the best play. However if you do check then a fold is by no means the default play after showing weakness, but a bluff is a lot less likely than if you had just called. Alternately if you just call here then on the river they are much more likely to milk bet, costing you a lot less.

in spot 2) the most likely situation is that they will fold, this isnt a huge problem as a lot of players wont continue betting on the river, but generaly I would think against a worse made hand you will wsin more by just calling.

3) Here you run the danger of getting sucked out on by just calling, but your opponent will often continue the bluff if you just call but will fold if you raise, again making more by just calling than by raising.

It seems in all 3 situations you win most / lose least by just calling his bet, if you held AK I would like the checkraise bluff far more (allthough I would fold more often than trying to bluff), as your gains in 2 & 3 would now be dramatic compared to calling, and your losses in 1 would be less as the river decision is easy when called, but as it is you stand a reasonable chance of been good but will not be called very often when you are ahead I would advise just calling, getting a little extra from the times when your opponents continue a bluff or make a bad value bet with a pair.

The danger of just calling is you do nothing to define your opponents hand, but sometimes it is better to just call and have an oponent on a broad enough range of hands that you can call a comparativly small bet with ease instead of paying a lot to know when called you are almost certainly losing.

Malachii · #7 07-25-2005, 10:10 PM

I don't usually bump other people's threads, but this hand is interesting and I'd like to see more people weigh in on it.

stu-unger · #8 07-25-2005, 11:46 PM

66-99/other JJ-65%
AK-AQ/22-55 -25% (donk provision)
10-10-10-10 -05%
AA-QQ -05%

NH

TheWorstPlayer · #9 07-25-2005, 11:51 PM

I dont think I like the turn c/r. Lets him off his lower pair too easily. I like it up until that point, but then I probably just call the turn and then lead the river for half pot. Once he called the c/r on the turn, though, I like the push on the river. But you should end the action once you push and before he calls, in the future.

Ghazban · #10 07-26-2005, 09:04 AM

The turn checkraise was not something I normally do (particularly not such a small raise) but I thought I'd try it out. I felt my opponent's most likely holding was a medium pair (77-99 or even the other JJ) and, by checkraising this amount on the turn, putting him in on the river is just a half pot bet that he can probably talk himself into calling to keep me honest. Lately, I've been trying to find some lines that get all the chips in without ever forcing my opponent to call a big bet and this small turn raise+1/2 pot river all-in was a good example. Any thoughts on that mentality?