NL hand, 2+2 makes me play bad. . .

[Acesover8s]

Every time I get good advice/info on here I find a way to misuse. I know I played this hand poorly and he got lucky, but how would you have played it?

.25-.50 online no limit.

Folded to me in the cutoff with Ad10c off, I make it 1.50 to go. Button raises the minimum, blinds fold. I call. I have $55., button has $40ish.

Flop comes A95 with two spades. I check. Button bets the pot, I just call. Turn is an offsuit queen. I check, he bets the pot. I call. River is the queen of spades. I bet about 1/2 the pot, he raises all in. I reluctantly call, and he shows me the quads that I let him get.

Normally I would checkraise the flop and that would be it. But the responses to my pocket 10's hand made me attempt a new strategy, which was a bad result as well.

Thanks,

[Matt Flynn]

You've got heart, that's for sure. Can't tell you how much money I've poured away playing sheriff in my day. To me AT is a good example of limit vs. no limit. Raising ATo in the cutoff is a limit play. In no limit, it's a go-broke hand that should be folded every time unless you figure to win the blinds at least 60% of the time when raising to 3x the BB. Unlikely in that game. ATo is that trashy a hand. You can only win a tiny bit or lose a lot.

Once you raised, you're better off folding to the preflop reraise. (Think of your bet preflop as a pure bluff and the fold gets easier. It's a vital difference from limit.) Once you "hit" the flop, I would've bet and folded to a raise but would not disagree much with a check-fold. After that it's all fold.

You'll get 'em.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Matt,
Interesting analysis. Could you elaborate on the mathematical logic behind it?

Sincerely,
AA

[Matt Flynn]

Hi AA,

The hand's not worth committing to, so the idea is to do anything you can not to commit. That means anything but calling or betting twice.

Preflop it's 3xBB to raise to steal 1.5BB, so if you win 66% of the time preflop you break even. With AT you do have some outs to flopping big hands (that will get paid off) so a 60% steal success rate is more than enough.

I recommend the flop bet because it allows you to win and gets you out cheaply yet with reasonable accuracy.

A corollary - if that word can be used - is one should avoid getting sucked in to river "pot odds" by your flop and turn play.

[MHoydilla]

Ok heres my opinion of the hand from preflop to the river.
1. Preflop your raise to open the action was fine a $1.50 to go with $.25-.50 blinds, when the button reraises the min. to 2.50 theres no way you should fold. You are now heads up with 5.75 in the pot minus the rake. At this point it is essential to atleast think about wat possible hands your the button could have.
2. Flop play - you flop top pair good (but very far from great), you check - very bad. In a hand like this you should bet the pot or approx. 5-6 because this will eliminate the chance of pocketpair calling because it would not allow for proper odds. If you check which I do not advise unless a very aggressive player then check raise so when he bet 5.75 raise him the min. which would allow you to easily get off your hand if reraised back.
3. On the turn there is approx 16.00 in the pot, you check and he bets the pot and you call. What were you thinking calling here? What possible hand/hands could you beat if he is aggressive a flush draw if not overly aggres. theres a very good chance your drawing dead!!!!! Very good chance for you to get out cheap.
4. A Q of spades completing the flush draw and pairing the board shows up. Now you bet into him, this could be a great move if you thought he was stone cold bluffing or hand an ace, but much more often than not this is just plain horrid (sorry but its the truth). If he folds great but now he reraises all in, after thinking about it are there any hands you put him on that you could beat, most likely not. A must fold on the river. Your opponent gave you many chances to get out but unfortunately you missed them. Its happened to all of us at times so dont feel bad, but honestly the best thing you can do in the future is keep posting and reading I guaruntee it will make you a better player. Feel free to post any comments or ?s about this hand or any other.

[Guy McSucker]

I mostly agre with MHoydilla here, except for on the river play.

After check-call, check-call, when the flush card comes on the river, I think betting 1/2 the pot isn't too bad a move. If I was the button and had AK, I would be thinking about the flush draw throughout, and this milk-bet would make me wonder. There are many online players to whom I would fold here if I couldn't beat the flush, so why not try this move?

When raised all-in it's definitely folding time. You've signalled that you just hit your draw, and your opponent doesn't care. Pass as fast as you can.

Guy.

[Acesover8s]

Thanks for your response. I know it was a horrible play and I had changed up my play mostly as a test that day. The theory was to take more risks going broke, but let my opponents bluff off their chips to me.

My normal play is bet, bet, bet. And I find my biggest hole is in opponents who have learned to just call me down. So I attempted to play their way.

I disagree with your comments about the river play though. On the river, assuming he doesn't have a queen (or say 4 of them) the spade queen is about as frightening of a card one could see. Although yes, I should have folded to the reraise.

[MHoydilla]

Ok before I get to the river lets follow the size of the pot and stacks. You=55, Button 40ish approx=40 or up to 45??? Preflop 2.5 each + blinds = 5.75 (all calculations with out rake). On the flop you each put in the pot 5.75 + 11.50 (5.75 x 2) pot equals approx 16, with each of you in for 8. Turn - pot bet 16 + 32(16x2) pot now with 48 each player in for apprx. 24. River you bet half the pot 24 your opponent calls all in for his remaining 16-21 (40-45 preflop - 24 up to the turn) correct me if my calculations are wrong. But this here is why your river bet is wrong If the button had at least AK and this seems resonable. With the pot being 48 a callable bet of only 16 gives him 4-1 on his call, and most small stakes online players would never fold here with those implied odds. You raised preflop and played the hand heads up whats to make him think you have a flush draw instead of an ace? Your small river bet in corralation to the pot, come on please. The theory behind the bet on the river when this scare card is correct but to make this move work you half to bet atleast the size of the pot, not a fraction of it. Also from my experience playing online NL the power of the bluff is greatly diminished because most of these players want to see that their beat. By that logic, I still think your river bet was wrong.