Steps: Are they worth trying?

[Taraz]

So what is the verdict on these anyway? Last I heard they were shark traps, but with these mini steps and step highers is anything different? Should they still be avoided like the plague?

[tshort]

About a month ago, I put together a script where I could analyze whether the mini steps would be worth my time. I had to make guesses as to how often I would finish at certain places. Even with what I thought to be an optimistic place distribution, I found that it certainly wouldn't be worth it to buy directly in to mini step and attempt to work your way up. I figured you could make more playing as low as the $11 SNGs to make more money per hour.

You would have a much better ROI on the steps if you are a good player. Maybe they are a way for a good player without a bankroll to try to build one.

Does anyone have any solid data on realistic SNG place distributions for a good player?

[Edit]

I didn't perform same calculations on Regular and Higher steps, but assumed they would be less proftiable per hour than higher buy in SNGs.

[FatalError]

you can't just apply your 109 finish distrobution to 430 stepsand get your ROI, players will play differently based on the payout structure and therefore your finish distribution willflatten out more in the middle

What are "Steps"??

[tshort]

I assume you're refering to my post. I took a best guess at creating a logical finish distribution depending upon each step's structure.

If I remember right, buying into step 4 or 5 directly would yield a nice hourly profit (but then you have rollbacks in step 4 you'll have to deal with).

[Nottom]

They are basically fish traps.

If you are playing the steps and not just buying into the top directly, then you will usually run into one of 2 problems.

a) You beat up on the low limit fish and get to the top where suddenly you are in a -EV game for you.

b) You are good enough to beat the higher levels, but then the smaller levels are -EV becasue you should be playing at a higher limit. Even if you buy into them at say lvl 3 which might be your normal game, you need to worry about the fact that some of your prize is wasted on things like "freerolls" to lower levels.

Basically if you are bored and playing for fun, Steps are fine. If you are actualy trying to make money trying to work your way up is a mistake.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
They are basically fish traps.

If you are playing the steps and not just buying into the top directly, then you will usually run into one of 2 problems.

a) You beat up on the low limit fish and get to the top where suddenly you are in a -EV game for you.

b) You are good enough to beat the higher levels, but then the smaller levels are -EV becasue you should be playing at a higher limit. Even if you buy into them at say lvl 3 which might be your normal game, you need to worry about the fact that some of your prize is wasted on things like "freerolls" to lower levels.

Basically if you are bored and playing for fun, Steps are fine. If you are actualy trying to make money trying to work your way up is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post, exactly what I would have written.

[citanul]

i'm not totally in agreement with any of this actually.

say you're massively +ev in some lower step like 3 and 4. and those are within your bankroll. then playing those, even if you feel you are going to be slightly -ev in the top steps is very reasonable.

say you're just straight up +ev in the top step, but don't have either the bankroll or the stomach for variance to buy in at the top. chances are very good that you will be fine just buying in at a lower step.

i am not a fan of the concept of "part of the prize being wasted on freerolls" it's not wasted, there's just a payout structure. if you're +ev, it means you're +ev, with all the other prizes taken into account and everything.

part of what i'm trying to say is that the concept of "lower steps being -ev because you should be playing a higher limit" strikes me as off. it might be -$ev relative to buying in to the top step, but it could still be +$ev. along that line, it could be out of your bankroll limitations or stomachability, as i have mentioned already, to play your most +$ev game, which is a reasonable thing to consider when remembering that life is not jus about $ev.

i find the steps to be fun and profitable.

the type of play that exists there is in large part very bad, amongst other things.

citanul

[microbet]

Fun? What's that? I guess I'll give them a shot. It might even feel like gambling.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Fun? What's that? I guess I'll give them a shot. It might even feel like gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

fun, it's that thing that trumps the ulcers that form from buying in direct for 1k.

citanul