Ego and success at poker

[Clarkmeister]

A disturbing, and I think unfortunate trend in Roy Cooke's articles is to deride players who he thinks are beneath him. Words like 'primadonna', 'wannabe', and an overall condescending tone permeate many of his recent articles. Fortunately we don't see that type of self-aggrandizing type of writing around here, however it really made me start thinking......

From Sklansky and Malmuth to Cooke and Caro to Helmuth, it seems to me that most of the high profile long term winners who have been around for more than a handful of years all have a very pronounced (and no doubt justified) ego when it comes to poker related issues. Is this a poker phenomenon or is it merely what occurs in any occupation when you are at the top of your field?

The same can be seen daily in the medium stakes forum on this board. Including myself (as I certainly qualify), there are a large number of posters with very pronounced ego that is probabaly better described as arrogant. Is this arrogance/self confidence a prerequisite to succeed in the cutthroat world of poker? We all know how a lapse of self confidence at the poker table can lead to significantly suboptimal play.

Is this a natural byproduct of winning? "I'm beating these people so I am smarter than them?" "These poor suckers/fish/tourists don't even know what I'm doing to them." I think there can be little doubt that winning at poker leads to an air of entitlement, of "I deserved to win", "just look at how bad (stupid) they are playing!".

So I guess my question is this: Is a large ego a prerequisite to playing long term successful poker, or does playing long term successful poker cause one to have a large ego? Are people who fit this profile drawn to poker, or does poker weed out the ones who don't fit that profile?

[brad]

you said gf started playing, wait and see. heh

[olemissgolf]

Compared to golf, (I compare everything to golf!) ego is less of a factor. I think a certain amount of ego is good in almost everything; however, it seems important to me the ability for a poker player to keep his ego in check.
The more ego you have in golf, the more confident you are, the more positive your outlook, the better your performance. A big ego in poker, though, will cause me to play too many hands, and to play too aggressively.
That feeling of entitlement can be a benefit at many sports. I'm not sure if it's an asset in poker.

[Mike Gallo]

Clarkmeister,

I am going out on a limb here. This post has nothing to do with poker. It has to do with my industry.

I work in credit and collections. Every succesful person in my field has a certain arrogamce about them. Many people view me as arrogant. I view myself as arrogant at times as well.

I know I am damn good at my job. It doesnt mean someone won't do it well, just not as good as I can. I want people like that to work for me.

I have a very arrogant young collector who works for me. His arogance comes from the fact that he collects the most money each month. In my industry numbers speak. That arrogance helps him in his work.

Nothing wrong with a little arrogance.

[Bob T.]

To get to the top, of any field, probably requires some degree of ego, and competitiveness. I think that at the top levels of every field, there are people who express disdain, at their lessor colleagues. That expression is of course, not a prerequisite, and there are many people who are at the top of their fields that are quite gracious.

Because of the directly competitive nature of poker, I think that that expression might be harder to contain than in many other endeavors. In a given hand, when someone else succeeds, you fail, and vice versa. In the session that I am playing in right now, the same guy cracked my AA with 75o, and 84o. How do you think that I feel about him? If I have to describe him, do you think I use words like Loose-passive, or maybe I use something more colorful.

As a pit manager, when I look at blackjack players, I see animals that live in a herd. When I sit down at the poker table, I see the predators. How do you think the wolves feel about the sheep, and what language do they use to express it.

I think that as poker players, we might naturally use language that shows some disdain for our competitors, but I also think that that is something that we should fight. I think that it hurts us in at least two ways. First, without our competitors, we don't have a game. Secondly, our language might make it easier to underestimate our opposition, and they are all dangerous in some situations. If we think of him, as that fishy guy, how much respect are we going to give him when he makes a raise on the river. But maybe we should be giving him a lot of respect right then.

[hot tub man # 1]

I thought it was intersting you brought up Roy Cooke. Is it me or is every one of his articles some stupid hand from his 30-60 game in which he outplays a lesser oppenent? I wish he would stop padding his ego and write about something worth reading.

[Howard Burroughs]

While I don't have the anwers to your questions, I do think that is a great observation on R.C.

I've found a few of his posts on UPF to be disturbingly obstreperous in a subtle yet hegemonic way.



FWIW - I think even the NON-winners have big egos, most don't log their session results & therefore have selective memory of their results. Remembering more the thrill of victory then the agony of defeat. Thus blurring the cold facts of how good they really are.


Best of Luck

Howard

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I think that you need to have a pretty big ego to play poker effectively at all. But you also need self-control to play it well. And if you have self-control, and you're playing poker well...

Well... Your ego probably ain't gonna get any SMALLER.

Whatever. We all got big egos, and mine is probably bigger than most. Whether it's well deserved or not is yet to be seen, but I make no apologies for it.

You think Bill Gates ain't got a big ego when it comes to computer software and marketing?

al

[Jedi Poker]

If the big ego comes from a feeling of confidence that is backed by real competence and even excellence, then it is a healthy big ego. But if the source of the big ego comes from a delusion that has been brought about by being too chicken to face the brutal facts about where one stands competence-wise, then it is false ego and therefore dysfunctional.

There's nothing wrong with having a big ego as long as it's justified by solid understanding, competence, and a track record that proves both. The key thing is to ALWAYS be humble in the inside even if one behaves like he's a god on the outside.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Ego is the drive that gets you started. Unchecked, ego leads to your downfall. The Zen warrior strives for perfection through the egoless state.