Where do I get away from this?

Insty · #1 07-18-2005, 02:10 PM

Second hand of the tournament.
I was probably a little too agressive here. Is there a point where I should get away from this?

Party Poker $20+2 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t645)
UTG+1 (t980)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
Hero (t800)
Button (t790)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero raises to t150, 1 fold, SB calls t140, 1 fold, MP2 calls t135.

Flop: (t462.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t175, SB folds, MP2 calls t175.

Turn: (t812.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero pushes all-In t475, MP2 calls all-In t475

River: (t812.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t812.50

adanthar · #2 07-18-2005, 02:13 PM

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Is there a point where I should get away from this?

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Hero (t800)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero raises to t150

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You could raise less than 20% of your stack here

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1 fold, SB calls t140, 1 fold, MP2 calls t135.

Flop: (t462.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t175

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You could refrain from betting (a weak bet no less) into 2 people on a flop that missed you here

[ QUOTE ]
, SB folds, MP2 calls t175.

Turn: (t812.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero pushes all-In t475

[/ QUOTE ]

You could stop bluffing with A high here

Ixnert · #3 07-18-2005, 02:24 PM

As Adanthar said, the preflop bet is way too big for level 1. Try 75, you're not narrowing things much (any) more with a 150 bet.

After that, your continuation on the flop isn't as big (or, alternately, is just as big but is a larger fraction of the pot). But once you get called on the flop, you need to stop throwing money at the pot. There are no discernable draws out there (this is a 22, so I suppose you might see A2, but I doubt it), so you've got to assume that they hit something.

Check behind on the turn, fold to anything but a tiny bet on the river unless you hit it.

sahala · #4 07-18-2005, 02:30 PM

If he called 175 on the flop it's hard to imagine he'd fold it to what is essentially a blank on the turn. He probably has KQ AQ QJ. The preflop raise seems a little high at 10x the BB.

45suited · #5 07-18-2005, 02:35 PM

I am not calling you a losing player, but I've often thought about this: Would the average losing player on the lower levels see their ROI increase if they never played any hand other than PPs on level 1?

IMO, spewing chips with AK and AQ on level by misplaying them causes more harm than just folding them pre-flop for a large number of players on the 11s.

Not recommending this (primarily because everyone should be trying to improve) but I don't think the idea can be dismissed out of hand either.

durron597 · #6 07-18-2005, 02:37 PM

If you want to be aggressive, how about this: (checking behind on the flop is also a good line since the pot is multiway).

Party Poker $20+2 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

SB (t785)
BB (t800)
UTG (t645)
UTG+1 (t980)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
Hero (t800)
Button (t790)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero raises to t100, 1 fold, SB calls t90, 1 fold, MP2 calls t85.

Flop: (t300) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t150, SB folds, MP2 calls t150.

Turn: (t600) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t600) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets 550 (all-in), Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1250

morgan180 · #7 07-18-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there a point where I should get away from this?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero (t800)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls t15, 1 fold, Hero raises to t150

[/ QUOTE ]

You could raise less than 20% of your stack here

[ QUOTE ]
1 fold, SB calls t140, 1 fold, MP2 calls t135.

Flop: (t462.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t175

[/ QUOTE ]

You could refrain from betting (a weak bet no less) into 2 people on a flop that missed you here

[ QUOTE ]
, SB folds, MP2 calls t175.

Turn: (t812.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero pushes all-In t475

[/ QUOTE ]

You could stop bluffing with A high here

[/ QUOTE ]

45suited · #8 07-18-2005, 02:39 PM

Durron, you don't think that raising to 100 is a bit of overkill? What's wrong with just raising to 60 or 70 or so and keeping the pot size under control and playing the hand with position?

durron597 · #9 07-18-2005, 02:41 PM

No way. I want the garbage to fold so I know that I'm only getting called by medium PPs or hands I dominate.

I'm calling a t60 bet with T9s, 33, etc., so I raise enough where it's not correct to call with those hands to try to stack AK.

45suited · #10 07-18-2005, 02:46 PM

Problem is, the 2/3 of the time you miss the flop, those medium PPs will tend to call your (bigger because of the larger PF raise) continuation bet that everyone loves to automatically throw out there. Then you're stuck with ace high in a pot whose size is getting out of control. People on the lower levels love to play pocket 5s like they're aces sometimes, especially since alot of people see your big raise and automatically assume you have AK.

Just personal preference I guess. Not saying my way is better. I just play AK very carefully on level 1. Maintain FE for bubble play since the average donkey on the lower levels is completely lost at bubble time.