Push this A7s?

[Beck]

Hero has been pushing a lot into the short stacks.
Is it a mistake to push into the big stack, with the current SB gone in 1 orbit?

20+2, blinds 300/600

SB 1000
BB 9900
Hero 2700
Button 1400

Hero is dealt A7s.
Hero.....???

[pergesu]

I push this with the quickness. You NEED the chips, a push isn't likely to get called, and even when you do, you don't hate it.

[curtains]

I think you should actually fold here. You are in one of those outwait and squirm your way into the money situations.

[Offsprung]

Easy push.

[pergesu]

By that, do you mean not to push cause he's not really playin for first?

[curtains]

Well your first goal is to make it into the money, and two people are about to bust, while the chip leader has almost 4 times your stack. A7s UTG just doesnt seem strong enough to me, and I suspect eastbays program likes a fold here too.

It mainly depends on the calling range of the BB. If they are very loose than pushing is clear -EV IMO.

I know people on this forum don't like it, but it's often correct to play like a giant wuss on the bubble when the situation calls for it. It's not commonplace but those times definitely do arise where it's correct.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]

Well your first goal is to make it into the money, and two people are about to bust, while the chip leader has almost 4 times your stack. A7s UTG just doesnt seem strong enough to me, and I suspect eastbays program likes a fold here too.

It mainly depends on the calling range of the BB. If they are very loose than pushing is clear -EV IMO.

I know people on this forum don't like it, but it's often correct to play like a giant wuss on the bubble when the situation calls for it. It's not commonplace but those times definitely do arise where it's correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this... I try to steal blinds / double up AFTER I'm in the money in this situation. You should have a very easy time waiting for one of the 2 small stacks to bust.

[curtains]

btw I suspect it's a clear push with ATs.

[pergesu]

edit: For some stupid reason, I thought there were 5 players left. So basically everything I said doesn't apply. But I'd actually be interested to know if things change when there are 5 players left, instead of just 4.



I'm not sure you can really wait for two more people to bust, can you? After you post next hand, you'll be down to 3.5 BB, while you've got one guy with 2 and one with nearly two. If either of these guys steals the blinds this round, you're basically even.

Waiting just seems to passive to me. You don't really have the luxury of time, and you're relying on someone else busting, so you're not making any effort to improve your position. Just kinda hoping to get lucky (which may be all you can do here?)

Also, I've been thinking about the big difference between 4- and 5-handed play lately. I think with 5 players left, a push is probably better than when there are just four, cause you're not exactly a great shot to make the money here. Stealing blinds helps you considerably, and you're in awesome shape if you double up.

I'm not saying any of this is right (or that your advice doesn't apply at low limits [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]), that would just be my thought process in coming to a decision, and I'd like to know what I can do better.

I agree that this is basically 100% dependent upon BB's calling range.

[curtains]

Sometimes it's good to play passive. You never have any guarantees. Of course both short stacks could double up, but they aren't likely to, and even then you have great chances to finish ITM. I'm just suspecting that when you add up all the factors, you are supposed to fold this hand.

Sometimes you have to allow yourself to be crippled in these extreme bubble situations where you are in clear 2nd and first place is miles ahead of you. You aren't always going for "first" place.

In this case I'd try to get into the final 3 and then MAYBE just maybe even try to get into 2nd, but I wouldn't go way out of my way to do so. That depends on some more factors of course.

Don't be scared to be passive and cripple yourself. I understand how it makes you feel helpless, as the blinds eat up such a large portion of your stack. However sometimes it's the best way to play. I know this from firsthand experience as it used to be a leak of mine that I would always be so desperate to make a move before I lose folding equity, even when it's incorrect to do so.

Anyway I suspect pushing isn't so bad, I just have a feeling that folding is slightly more profitable against most opponents.