Four Flush vs. Paired Door Card

Spladle Master · #1 07-13-2005, 08:32 PM

Comments on all streets appreciated.

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls

4th Street - (6.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___double raises
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls

5th Street - (11.00 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (15.00 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

River - (15.00 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (17.00 BB)

Results:
Main Pot: $65 | Rake: $3

Seat 4: [ 8c Ac Td 7s 4h 7h Kd ] [ a pair of sevens -- Ac,Kd,Td,7s,7h ]

Spladle Master · #2 07-13-2005, 08:34 PM

The converter isn't showing it, but seat 8 had 99 in the hole and took the pot.

CJC · #3 07-13-2005, 08:40 PM

Generally not a good idea to re-raise with a flush draw when someone before you has ALREADY raised a paired doorcard that has lead out..

Even in funky online games.

A good portion of the time you should fold

CJ

MrBlueNose · #4 07-13-2005, 08:48 PM

I really really hate the double raise on 4th, although I can't decide whether it's better than cold-calling. Actually after seat 1 has completed then raised, I fold it...depending on read on him that is.

However in saying that, why not raise 5th, so you can either take the free card on 6th, or at that point bet for value(not that it mattered in this hand). It can also get you a free showdown if say you pair a king but don't think its good.

Bartholow · #5 07-13-2005, 08:48 PM

I can't imagine not raising on 3rd with your hand. Flush is almost completely live, all your pair cards completely live.

Since you haven't given us any info on the players, I think I'd just call on 4th, but I wouldn't be willing to fold. If it gets capped back to you you might want to fold.

beta1607 · #6 07-13-2005, 10:34 PM

I complete 3rd here almost everytime. You have a live flush draw and only small cards behind with a K up.

Having not completed, you telegraphed that you did not have KK on 3rd, so on 4th I either cold call or single raise, there is no value in the double bet which could potentiall shut other players out which is not what you want.

The rest of the hand is standard.

Spladle Master · #7 07-13-2005, 10:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really really hate the double raise on 4th, although I can't decide whether it's better than cold-calling. Actually after seat 1 has completed then raised, I fold it...depending on read on him that is.

However in saying that, why not raise 5th, so you can either take the free card on 6th, or at that point bet for value(not that it mattered in this hand). It can also get you a free showdown if say you pair a king but don't think its good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raised fourth for value. Seat 8 could easily have just the pair of fives and Seat 1 a pair of eights. I had two live overcards and my flush draw was ridiculously live. When Seat 8 bet fifth I couldn't figure out what the hell he had. If he had trip fives then I definitely didn't want to raise. As it was I got a free card on sixth anyway, though I would've bet sixth if I caught a king or queen and taken a free showdown if I didn't improve.

Spladle Master · #8 07-13-2005, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine not raising on 3rd with your hand. Flush is almost completely live, all your pair cards completely live.

Since you haven't given us any info on the players, I think I'd just call on 4th, but I wouldn't be willing to fold. If it gets capped back to you you might want to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising on third is definitely something I considered. In retrospect I probably should've. On fourth I raised partly for value and partly for information. If anyone else had put in another raise after me I would've gotten scared. Since no one did I figured trips weren't out, but the bet on fifth just confused me, so I played it passive from there on out.

Spladle Master · #9 07-13-2005, 10:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there is no value in the double bet which could potentiall shut other players out which is not what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha-ha, there is no way I'm shutting anybody out with a double raise. 8AT7 came along for the ride without even a three-flush.

theben · #10 07-13-2005, 11:22 PM

i dont like getting really aggro w/ the 4-flush against the paired door, especially w/ all those other players in. just call, keep people in and let them try to drawout with thier 2paired hands and flush 'em