Early QQ hand

[johnnybeef]

I really haven't posted a hand in quite some time, and this one struck me as interesting.


#Game No : 2355561465
***** Hand History for Game 2355561465 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:13890602 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Wednesday, July 13, 01:41:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 16929 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 8: Stoitchkov ( $1000 )
Seat 1: WSOP_or_Bust ( $975 )
Seat 10: taratarus ( $990 )
Seat 9: EvaHerdaThat ( $1055 )
Seat 3: triforme ( $945 )
Seat 2: whoanelly ( $975 )
Seat 6: mrbibbs33 ( $960 )
Seat 7: snake2003 ( $1115 )
Seat 4: peoplesjim ( $1000 )
Seat 5: MTOTO_NRB ( $985 )
Trny:13890602 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to EvaHerdaThat [ Qs Qh ]
MTOTO_NRB raises [100].
mrbibbs33 folds.
snake2003 folds.
Stoitchkov folds.
EvaHerdaThat raises [300].
taratarus folds.
WSOP_or_Bust folds.
whoanelly folds.
triforme folds.
peoplesjim folds.
MTOTO_NRB calls [200].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, As, 4s ]
MTOTO_NRB checks.
EvaHerdaThat checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
MTOTO_NRB is all-In [685]
EvaHerdaThat???

I think that I messed up by not making a continuation bet, but i kinda feared a check raise. The turn push really made my spidey sense tingle. Thoughts?

[Apathy]

This is pretty read dependant...

My non-read, read is that you should call or fold on the turn (I'm not really partial to either) and you played the hand well by checking the flop imo.

Betting 300 and then folding to a checkraise is silly, and betting less then 300 is equally silly.

[45suited]

I don't think that I'm a huge fan of your big re-raise preflop for the very reason that you have no room to maneuver on a flop such as this.

However, at a lower buy-in than what you're playing, I think that a pre-flop raise this big UTG often means mid PP that villain is afraid to see a flop with.

So, I guess I'm copping out a bit!

All things considered, I'm reluctantly folding to his push, knowing that there is a good chance that I'm folding the best hand. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Would re-raising to just 200 pre-flop be bad? Get the hand heads up and if he pushes all-in, obviously call pre-flop? This way, you have some more wiggle room post flop. Just a thought...

[lastchance]

If you CB the flop, I think you have to send the rest of your chips toward the middle.

I fold the turn, BTW. I don't see UTG having anything that I beat. Either a bad ace or KK. Maybe JJ? I don't know.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
However, at a lower buy-in than what you're playing, I think that a pre-flop raise this big UTG often means mid PP that villain is afraid to see a flop with.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly. i used to think that big raises like this pf meant TT or JJ, but I have been finding out a lot lately that it can mean even worse (KQ or AJ). furthermore, i find that people virtually always fold to a reraise when they make huge bets pf like this. my plan pf was to get both of our chips in the center somehow (or make him fold) if no ace came on the flop. it did, and i was caught like a deer in headlights when he pushed the turn.

[45suited]

Yeah, that's just a tough spot. I really think that anyone who claims with certainty to know the "right" play here is really just guessing. (Not that the top guys don't have a better idea than me!)

Because of what you said about big UTG raises being stuff that you'd never imagine, I've been burned too many times playing QQ too passively, sometimes just calling and letting others in the hand with pot odds. So now, I'm much more prone to re-raise. It just sucks those few times when the ace flops. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'd fold because the probability that I'm already beat plus the fact that I feel I can outplay my opponents later makes up for the possibility that I'm folding the best hand (in my opinion anyway).