This is gonna be interesting...

moot · #1 07-08-2005, 02:34 AM

My first hand at the table. I typed "this is gonna be fun" after I saw the flop. Was my line pretty standard? Not sure if the flop cap correct. Assuming no one has AA I have a lot of outs even if I'm behind and I figured the combined chance that I was ahead plus my outs if behind was enough to push the equity.

I think slowing down on the turn is pretty standard.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, Hero (poster) 3-bets, 3 folds, SB caps, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (24 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (21 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 29 BB

aK13 · #2 07-08-2005, 02:38 AM

I like it.

jaxUp · #3 07-08-2005, 04:25 AM

You can fold this river pretty safely here.

Bodhi · #4 07-08-2005, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You can fold this river pretty safely here.

[/ QUOTE ]

jaxUp · #5 07-08-2005, 04:43 AM

I seriously think we are good no more than 1% of the time here.

aK13 · #6 07-08-2005, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I seriously think we are good no more than 1% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

QJ/AQ/KQ not happening 1 out of 30 times?

jaxUp · #7 07-08-2005, 05:22 AM

not from everybody still involved. I UTG almost certainly has a straight or better. No way I'm dorpping a BB as an overcaller on this river.

pryor15 · #8 07-08-2005, 05:31 AM

if...IF...UTG didn't flop the flush, he certainly hit the straight on the turn. (and if he didn't, someone else did)...stick around to see if the board pairs, then fold the river.

moot · #9 07-08-2005, 05:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You can fold this river pretty safely here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I won.

I know that the specific hand results don't dictate the rightness or wrongness of a call, but I think you guys are missing the point. You talk about everyone sticking around like it's a bad thing, but it's not. Yeah, UTGs turn bet doesn't look good, but the way the other 2 are playing this hand it means we have them completely destoryed. Because if they had either flush or straight they'd likely be raising.

So the thing is, everyone sticking around doesn't matter much, in fact it pads the pot. It's just a matter of the UTG. We obviously call the turn with the boat outs, and since we didn't raise the turn there's actually a fairly wide range of hands the UTG could be betting on the river since we didn't define our hand as a powerhouse on the turn. So what this all amounts to is letting one player take a very cheap stab at a huge multiway pot.

I don't think a river fold is terrible here, and it might actually be the right play, but I think you guys are failing to look at the hand as a whole. "Oh God look, everyone's calling that's scary so I have to fold." And that's just dumb. Please don't list the multiway action as a reason to fold, because it's not.

Additionally, you have to look at the aggressor. The SB has defined himself as the hand aggressor (along with me). But when he checks the turn it opens up the UTG to take over the hand. This doesn't mean UTG has the straight (or flush), it only means the SB does not. If the SB had bet the turn and then the UTG had raised, that could be grounds to fold to river unimproved. But the turn action is actually nothing like that.

Results in white below: 
SB has 6d Kd (one pair, kings).
UTG has Ah 3d (one pair, aces).
UTG+1 has Ad Qs (two pair, aces and queens).
Hero has Kh Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 29 BB.

jaxUp · #10 07-08-2005, 05:46 AM

I found the following post very interesting and relevant here. Be sure to read GoT's linked thread in its entireity. It's great. related post