WSOP AA vs. KK

[MicroBob]

x-posted from my blog just because I think it's kind of interesting.
Does anyone lay it down if he pushes all-in (instead of re-raising to $5k) and also has you covered?
I doubt it....even with $10k in chips over a multi-day event the blinda and ante's eat up your stack quickly enough that you just have to make SOME kind of moves...and all-in with KK pre-flop should be pretty darned okay.

Anyway - general thoughts on whether it's even possible to fold KK pre-flop in the early-going of an MTT??

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I talked with Lacky about the hand that killed me.
I don't think there's anything I could have done really but I still feel like I might have been able to get away from it.


Lacky mentioned that both Dan Harrington and Gus Hansen have said that they have NEVER folded kings pre-flop. That makes me feel a little better.
I seem to remember them having said this too now that Lacky mentioned it.


Blinds 50/100 -
I have 18k or so - villain has 12k

Tight player in early position raise to 300.
With KK in LP I make it 1000.
Villain re-raises to 5000.
I push all-in (and have him covered and still have 6k if I lose) and he calls.

His AA beats my KK and I never recovered at all in the tourney.

yuck!!


When he re-raised to 5000 I was thinking that he couldn't possibly do that unless he had Aces and I half-thought about laying it down.

But then I remembered that I had been kind of aggressive earlier (winning 4 pots in the first two orbits to build a stack up to 11.2k or so) and he possibly read me as a little bit reckless.

Maybe he has AK or something and he's putting me on TT or JJ perhaps and thinks I'll back down to his 5k re-raise....maybe HE just has AK and doesn't care what I have.


This hand happened just 2 orbits or so after I flopped top set with QQ to clobber a different player with AA.


When I had the KK and raised to 1k he commented, "Do you have queens again?" or something like that.


Anyway - I can post-mortem this all I like about what I was thinking and why I was thinking it....and that when he re-raised to $5k I just KNEW he had aces.

But I REALLY don't think I could live with myself if I laid that down. It would be just due to some combination of perceived 'instinct' and paranoia and oftentimes the two are hard to distinguish.
and I certainly don't think I could live with myself if I laid it down and then he showed me TT or something silly.


The only other option is to just call the $5k raise and see the flop and THEN push all-in when all the undercards come....and that's going to end in the same result because there's no way he lays it down on that flop.

[MicroBob]

Oh yeah...the hand where I get knocked out felt just a hint reckless but I think was the correct play.

150/300, ante 25 -
I have 4200 in the CO with A5o.
I push all-in.
Button calls with AK and I'm out.


Johnny Chan was in the BB with a slightly shorter stack than me (about $3k I think) and I'm hoping he will be interested in going heads-up with a hand that would be a dog to a bare-ace such as a J9s or anything else he feels like taking a stand with.
I think there's value in the potential for Johnny to roll the dice with me heads-up.
but he never got to since the button had AK.


Lacky suggested that I could wait for a better time to make a move...but I think we both are okay with it even for a 14BB push.

Remember, with the blinds and antes there's already $650 in the pot.
But my main concern was that 14BB's was just too much to try this kind of play with and that it was a little bit reckless.

thoughts?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah...the hand where I get knocked out felt just a hint reckless but I think was the correct play.

150/300, ante 25 -
I have 4200 in the CO with A5o.
I push all-in.
Button calls with AK and I'm out.


Johnny Chan was in the BB with a slightly shorter stack than me (about $3k I think) and I'm hoping he will be interested in going heads-up with a hand that would be a dog to a bare-ace such as a J9s or anything else he feels like taking a stand with.
I think there's value in the potential for Johnny to roll the dice with me heads-up.
but he never got to since the button had AK.


Lacky suggested that I could wait for a better time to make a move...but I think we both are okay with it even for a 14BB push.

Remember, with the blinds and antes there's already $650 in the pot.
But my main concern was that 14BB's was just too much to try this kind of play with and that it was a little bit reckless.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

i personally hate that shove, and definitely rather do it with something like 56s WAY before A5o. yer not in desperation mode at all, so its not necessary to shove there. u can wait 4 orbits and still be at a relatively decent stack. gots to learn to wait next time. holla

[MicroBob]

I don't disagree entirely...
but I am paying 150+ 300 + 250 (antes) = 700 every orbit.


If I wait 4 orbits for a better hand then I'm giving away 2800 of my 4200 stack and am left with virtually nothing.
I'm not disputing that waiting might have been better...but I certainly don't have 4 orbits. More like 2.


Holla back!!

[sirio11]

The KK hand was pretty hard to fold, I need to know the player with the AA, but it's really hard to lay down the kings.

The A5o is a bad play in my opinion.