Too aggressive on first hand?

[sirtemple]

First hand of a large MTT. 1500 starting chips. Folded around to me one off the button. I have 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I wouldn't mind seeing a flop, but being first in I decide to raise to 80 hoping to take the blinds(10/20).

Standard play or a mistake?

[schwza]

i'd fold. raising is at best barely +EV, and if you get caught raising it here people will remember and your blind steals will he harder. and i think raising it is -EV anyway.

[EverettKings]

Not standard. Also not a mistake if you know how to play it post flop. That's not a play that you should make unless you know how you're going to handle the hand from then on.

That said I wouldn't recommend it.

Kings

[BlackAces]

I'd muck this. The blinds aren't worth enough to worry abut taking them here. Save steals like this for later rounds, when there's enough money in the pot to make it worthwhile.

[sirtemple]

I'm glad I posted this, because I thought this was a fairly common type play. Maybe I have FPS. Are blind steals only worth the risk late in tournies? I thought my hand had good possibilities to flop something if called, but wasn't good enough to tempt me to call a re-raise. Is it a bad steal because early in tournies your FE is close to 0(too many loose players), or is bad because the blinds ae so low? If it is based on blind size is it there actual value that's low, or there relationship w/ stack sizes?

I think I've hit on a fundimental error in my play. I thought stealing blinds and antes was the key to tournament survival. Isn't this the foundation of the "small ball" strategy that top players utilize?

I appreciate the help.

[John Bedtelyon]

Your thinking is correct in that you have position to make this type of steal. But like has been said, the EV isn't there for you to make this play, it's far better to just fold in this position.

However, I'd raise if I was on the button in this position, even though it shows I'll steal blinds. If I get caught and everybody sees, more power to them, I'll just not steal at this table or make sure I fake a steal with a decent hand.

First into the pot on the button is a raise for me, all stages, of all the things I'm playing. Okay, that may not be true in every case, but you get my point.

Also, form good raises. I can't recall the blinds, but I think you said you had 1500 chips, so it wasn't PP, so maybe poker stars? If the blinds are 15/30 then 80 would be a good bet. But if it's 10/15 like in party poker, no need to use so many chips. It's more than 5 times the BB. Anyway, bad play from EV point of view, but not always the wrong play.

[sirtemple]

The blinds were 10/20 - so it was a 4x raise.

Why was it a -EV move? I'm not disagreeing, but I just don't see why this blind steal was -EV when it looks to be a textbook steal. And all steals can't be -EV or no-one would do them.

[Atty]

You are raising with nothing to win nothing. With deep stacks, someone might call your raise, and 47s isn’t a hand that plays well HU. Fold. 30 more to your stack will not make a difference.

[locutus2002]

I don't mind it. I think its a little on the bold side.

You're stealing with no table image, and no evaluation of the blinds play. You're simply saying I'm going to be aggressive. This might be a mistake to do repetitively, but I think it might work once or twice. I might even show it.

The downside is you might get called by a wide range of speculative hands since the stacks are so deep and the implied odds for hitting a hand are so great. Just about all these hands are a huge favorite against 74. Both players are likely to have well concealed hands, and you have the worst of it. You may not have position if button calls.

Is it EV--? Who knows, its impossible to tell the consequences of such an early play that only commits a few chips.

[betgo]

Mistake unless it is pretty high buyin. People will just call you this early.