Is this avoidable?

[Big Limpin']

...and if so, what alterate line would have been better?

-Early-ish...full table, stacks evenish
-Hero CO w/ KK
-2 limps, hero ups it to t150...one limper calls
-FLop JJx, villain checks, hero bets t200, called.
-*alarm goes off* theres not flush draw/str8 draw...hmmmm
-turn is another rag. Villain checks. Hero?

Pot size=my stack=his stack. I pushed. I regreted that before he called. My thoughts at the time: He prolly calls with mid-pp(?)and folds Ace-overs. Of course, he may have trips.

Discuss merits of checking turn...and what happens on 5th street with his possible holdings.

TY in advance,
BL'

( <font color="white"> villain shows JJJ </font> )

[Freudian]

I would be very careful here. Calling on the flop is in my mind a strong play and you have to treat it as such.

[future]

I'd expect someone to bet out with their PP on the flop. Check/call= strength from players who try to trap everytime they pick up a big hand. If he has an ace he's drawing to a three outer. I check turn and check/call river.

[MrOnizuka]

I'd just bet the pot on the flop. 200 is like 1/2 the pot no? Those kind of bets often get see as, "Doh, I missed, lets see if I can take it down for cheap", especially on a flop like this. IF they call that, I'd definently check behind, and maybe even on the river.

That being said, I think that checking the turn is probably a good idea. If the board still has no draws at all, then you're really only fearing an A. Checking keeps the pot small and gives you a free chance to hit a miracle K, but the downside is that you might have to deal with a flat out push or large bet on the river. Might be a good idea, if you decide to check the turn, to come up with an idea of how much you're willing to call.


I think that checking the flop/potting the flop/your line, are actually all pretty close if its early on and no reads. Personally, I'd go broke with KK a lot in this situation

[kasey2004]

[ QUOTE ]
I check turn and check/call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villian seems strong here to me i guess he could have a PP but hes obviously not folding trips or a boat so i vote for not puting anything in the turn or if possible the river

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Kasey [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Big Limpin']

It seems we are all in agreement that him check/calling on JJx board with no draws is rather disconcerting, and that checking turn would be prudent.

I'll give a bit more info on what i was thinking making htat turn push (although i do now regret it, and not just because he had trips). My thinking was that if i check turn, its entirelly likely (even probable) that he will push river. He will push river with some hands that i can beat, and some that i cant. Then where will i be? Left with a decision with the pot laying me 2:1 and holding an overpair. Thats real sticky.
The hands he just checks the river are the hands that fold to my turn push, yes?
The hands that he pushes river are the hands that may or may not call me turn push. Trips call, but perhaps so does PPs. Also, It is not impossible that he made a complete donk call on flop (AQ type) and just wanted to "take a card off an hope", or "thought we both missed and he had me high carded". If he has 2 overs, and check/calls my flop, then sees the turn go check/check, well if he's astute player, theres a good chance he pushes river then too. And it might work.

So, checking turn may be the best line, but realize that its no walk in the park either, as the river will be awkward. Of course if he checks river too, i check it down.

BL'