Interesting 7CSFAP Fifth Street Play

blumpkin22 · #1 07-02-2005, 10:56 PM

Rereading the book I recalled the following interesting play (p.88-89):

"Occasionally there are other benefits to a check-raise on fifth street besides getting more money in the pot. For instance, a check-raise might get you a free card. The play is to represent a strong hand in such a manner that if you miss on sixth street, your opponent will not bet (after you check)."

The example given is the following.

"You raise on third street with (T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and are raised by a queen, meaning at least a pair of queens. On fourth street, you both catch blanks. He bets and you call. On fifth street, you catch a king versus another blank for your opponent. Check-raise a weak player."

Anyone ever use this play or something similar? At what limits? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from the more experienced posters (e.g., Roland, Andy B, etc.).

-blumpkin

BeerMoney · #2 07-02-2005, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be particularly interested in hearing from the more experienced posters (e.g., BeerMoney, Andy B, etc.).

-blumpkin

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

lane mcbride · #3 07-02-2005, 11:17 PM

I use it once in awhile... My favorite usually goes like this. usually you can go for a check raise on the river if you make your hand on the river too. once you check sixth he'll bet seventh if you check (a lot of times)

grb137 · #4 07-02-2005, 11:19 PM

Definately. This play should be a staple in any 7CS player's aresenal.

This play is designed for heads up pots. Considering how hard it is to get heads up pots in the lower limits, you'll not often see opportunity for it. Moreover, at the lower limits check-raises usually get called all the way down to the river. I don't know what it is...maybe curiosity, maybe taking it personally, maybe its "well I've put a bunch of money in already, so I might as well see it through"...whatever it is, people at the lower limits call check raises all the way down. Thats fine though, you'll win enough times to make it worth your while.

On a related note, - if you don't catch 2pr by hitting an overcard, don't puss out and check the river. Bet the hand on the end for value. Its very unlikely you'll get raised, even if they've made their 2 pr.

blumpkin22 · #5 07-02-2005, 11:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be particularly interested in hearing from the more experienced posters (e.g., BeerMoney, Andy B, etc.).

-blumpkin

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha.

I said "etc."...

BeerMoney · #6 07-02-2005, 11:59 PM

Just in case you were wondering who the superior player is...

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Roland: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
BeerMoney: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (6.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Roland: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
BeerMoney: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.85 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Roland: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
BeerMoney: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (4.85 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Roland: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
BeerMoney: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___raises

River - (8.85 BB)

Roland: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___calls
BeerMoney: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

Total pot: (10.85 BB)

Roland: [ Qs 2d Qd Th 3c 7h Jd ] [ a pair of queens -- Qs,Qd,Jd,Th,7h ]

BeerMoney: [ As Kc 5h Qh 3h Ks 2c ] [ a pair of kings -- As,Kc,Ks,Qh,5h ]

blumpkin22 · #7 07-03-2005, 12:13 AM

Nice hand.

Except for third.

Andy B · #8 07-03-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BeerMoney: A K 5___brings-in___calls

[/ QUOTE ]

Puke.

Andy B · #9 07-03-2005, 12:35 AM

The vast majority of my experience is at limits of $6/12 and lower. What little mid-limit experience I have (at high-only stud) has come mostly in games against incompetents, which is how I like it. There just aren't too many heads-up pots.

That said, I'm not sure I'm wild about this play. If the other guy will fold, great, but I think of "weak" players as being callers rather than folders. By check-raising fifth, you might get him to check behind on sixth (if you haven't improved), but I think your typical "weak" player will check behind on sixth a fair amount of the time anyway, even if he's made two pair.

BeerMoney · #10 07-03-2005, 12:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BeerMoney: A K 5___brings-in___calls

[/ QUOTE ]

Puke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy, I do stuff like this cause I figure you'd appreciate it, and the forum would as well.

There were 6 2+2 people at the table, so I had a good audience for this hand.. I prefaced the 3rd street call with "who wants to see a bad beat?" I really only made the loose 3rd street call cause I knew my expert 6th street play would be a factor.

Please tell Roland, the other experienced guy, to stop trying to steal my bring in..