An Ethical Quandry

[Exsubmariner]

Down down the dark path I go.
I am tracked in Poker Edge. Do I pay the $9.99 extortion fee every month to keep my name hidden from every one else who uses it? If I do, I might be tempted to use it myself. Do I subscribe or start a letter campaign to Potty to change their software such that hand histories are not publicly available to just anyone observing their tables? Do I take my business elsewhere or do I resign myself to playing a level that is so small it ins't tracked. Bigger stakes with lesser advantage or smaller stakes with greater advantage?
Looks like my viel is lifted I will never look at online poker the same again and I will now have to be forever vigilent against the 2+2 Borg Collective. Resistance is Futile.
X

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
Down down the dark path I go.
I am tracked in Poker Edge. Do I pay the $9.99 extortion fee every month to keep my name hidden from every one else who uses it? If I do, I might be tempted to use it myself. Do I subscribe or start a letter campaign to Potty to change their software such that hand histories are not publicly available to just anyone observing their tables? Do I take my business elsewhere or do I resign myself to playing a level that is so small it ins't tracked. Bigger stakes with lesser advantage or smaller stakes with greater advantage?
Looks like my viel is lifted I will never look at online poker the same again and I will now have to be forever vigilent against the 2+2 Borg Collective. Resistance is Futile.
X

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy Christ -- I'm so sick of this PE shiite -- you donks act like it's the holy F'ing grail...so what if other players know a little bit about how you play; frankly, 97% of the retards on this forum wouldn't know what to properly do with that information anyway...and the other 3% aren't even going to want to sit at your table (if you're a winning player -- which I'd wager nine tenths of the morons worrying about PE aren't).

Yes, it's regrettable that sharks might now drain the fish coffers at a somewhat quicker pace, but acting like PE is somehow allowing your opponents to freakin' see your hole cards or get a similarly huge advantage over you is ludicrous.

EDIT: (no offense to you personally submariner -- just a little tired of every other post on here being PE-related...since when does this not qualify as spam anyway)

[mackthefork]

You are wrong, people who use this are 'killing the goose that laid the golden eggs'.

Mack

[Derek in NYC]

Please dont take it the wrong way, but I gathered from a previous post of yours that you play 1/2 limit. At this level, using PE (or for that matter PT) is immaterial--both in conferring an advantage by using the software, or in being disadvantaged by not using it. Save your money, buy some books, and play ABC poker. Rinse repeat.

[bkholdem]

So poker edge is getting paid on both ends? They get a bunch of people to subscribe, charging a monthly fee. Then they get those same people to pay another montly fee to keep their data out? LOL. How do I get ahold of some poker edge stock? Pretty soon they will have 10 thousand subscribers paying for the list and also paying to keep their names out of the list so they will be making a boatload and there will be no names to track hahhhaaaa

[Exsubmariner]

I understand what you are saying teddy, and no offense taken. In theory, you are correct. In practical application, however, the table selection features alone of pokeredge are significant. What takes me 4 or five tables of watching a couple of orbits to figure out could now be done by just looking at the stats. This gives the other players significant edge on me. Also, if I sit down with a tight aggressive player and on the first or second hand I play get a really nut hand. I get way aggressive. If the TAG didn't have data on me he might have a second best hand and call me down with it or try to raise the turn and bluff me off it, if he has data that I play aggressively and might try something like a checkraise on the turn or river with really strong hands, he's going to fold. That's - ev for me. I don't like the idea that someone who I have never seen before has that kind of predefined read on my play.
I am not spamming. I hope to bring frank discussion and awareness of what this is. I couldn't in good conscience promote it's use. Some of the tactics the creaters are using to market their product harken back to the mob and paying "protection money" every month to hide yourself from other users. This is definately well within the boundaries of a very grey area.
I'll concede that the vast majority of people who read these boards will never be able to figure out what to do with this data or how to employ it because they have a hard enough time beating the game of poker. I am not among them, thankfully. I am concerned, though, about the ones who can.
Things just got a whole lot easier for them.
X

[Exsubmariner]

I have since moved up. More sharks, less rake, less fish.
X
(edit: I made $350 last night. A night like that is becoming increasingly rare. The pots as I move up are more and more anemic. I pray to God in heaven that some Moneymaker repeat happens at the WSOP and we get an but ton of new players. Otherwise Party is going to be a perpetual rock garden. I thank you for the advice, you don't know me and I am not put out that you would tell me to do the things I keep doing already. But, I appreciate the sentiment you would take the time to say it.)

[Rudbaeck]

It gives someone a slight advantage against you for the first few dozen hands they play. After that the multitablers have their own PT data on you, and the single tablers have an even more solid read.

As soon as you've played 50-100 hands against someone you're screwed. They've got a good grasp on how aggressive you are, how many hands you play, and those that really pay attention know how you adjust to different table textures.

It's not going to make a significant difference in your bottom line immediately. For every shark that gets a read on you a couple of hands faster there is another shark who just avoided your table as you're (hopefully?) flagged as a shark yourself.

[ckessel]

Good freaking paranoid lord. And what about all the people with PT stats on you?

Look, I use PE. When I see someone whose a TAG, I avoid them. I don't want a table of tags. When they're in the pot, I'm wary. You should be happy other TAG's don't want to be at your table or tangle with you in the pot, that's a good thing.

If you suck at poker, PE isn't going to help your opponent much because, remember, you suck and they don't. You're going to be dominated and outplayed post flop in those situations(where PE value is limited anyway).

It's like someone just pointed out the elephant in the room or something. PE's value is table selection. It's not much more useful than PT when it comes to playing against a specific individual. In fact, the best TAGs play differently against other TAG's than fish in general, which means even if I had 100k hands on them in PE, I can't rely on it if the TAG knows I'm a TAG (which any PokerTracker or PE would probably knows).

Take off the tinfoil hat and go play poker.

[Uglyowl]

How hard is it to find a loose table. Big pots or high plrs/flop. That generally works.