Spin-off: 10 Most influential people of all time.

[goofball]

This one is really tough. I haven't even come up wiht 10 names yet, but my current ideas are:

Aristotle, Jesus, Gutenberg, Newton all as very solid.

Plato and Socrates, Julius Caesar, Ghengis Khan, Moses, the rest of the locks from the last millenia list (luther darwin copernicus einstin) are all in contention.

But all time is really [censored] tough.

edit - i don't actually know if julius caesar was the one who made the meditarranean the "roman lake" but whoever that was...

[CallMeIshmael]

Ive got 4 off the top of my head... I'll keep thinking

IMO 1,2 and 3 are pretty much not even debatable.

1. Jesus
2. Muhammad
3. Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha)
4. Confucius

[goofball]

i was just about to say nice ones, but then i realized. haaving all the first 3 on the list sort of takes away from it for me. They all sorta did the same thing, just in different areas in the world, and humanity being what it is it almost seens like the things they did were things that 'needed' to happen. i dunno, is that clear at all?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
i was just about to say nice ones, but then i realized. haaving all the first 3 on the list sort of takes away from it for me. They all sorta did the same thing, just in different areas in the world, and humanity being what it is it almost seens like the things they did were things that 'needed' to happen. i dunno, is that clear at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... this is part of the arugment with pretty much everyone: IF they didnt exist, someone else would have done it anyway. So... you cant count them, right?

I say wrong, because, frankly they DID it. And that is the influence.

Nothing is anywhere near the Jesus/Muhammad 1/2 combo in terms of changing the way we think, and affecting how we act.

Also... its not like IF Muhammad didnt exist, Jesus would just be more famous, because of how information has been limited in terms of expansion until fairly recently.

[goofball]

my point wasn't really hte "if they didn't somoene else would have" I should have been more clear. My point was that they both did essentailly the same thing.
I mean, like you said, say jesus doesn't exist, doesn't muhammad's teaching just spread further and vice versa? I dunno, takes a little away for me.I'm not really attempting to argue that they don't belong, just voicing a vague feeling/concern.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
my point wasn't really hte "if they didn't somoene else would have" I should have been more clear. My point was that they both did essentailly the same thing.
I mean, like you said, say jesus doesn't exist, doesn't muhammad's teaching just spread further and vice versa? I dunno, takes a little away for me.I'm not really attempting to argue that they don't belong, just voicing a vague feeling/concern.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ahh... my bad. I see what you mean. And its an interesting point.


But, I think its tough to tell. Because, it would be difficicult for say, Jesus' teachings to have reached the entire world until not too long ago. So, I would say no, and that several people with those sort of philosophical thoughts had to exist.

But, I have no way to back that up, AND its quite debatable.

[quinn]

It seems to me like the correct secular standpoint on this is that Muhammad is more influential than Jesus. This is for a few reasons:
1. Muhammad was the chief proselytizer of his religion, Jesus was not. (Though they were both founders)
2. Muslims follow what Muhammad said more closely than Christians follow what Jesus said, in general.

Of course, if Jesus really did save the world from its sin, then obviously Jesus is more influential.

[CallMeIshmael]

I actually said in an OOT post the 1 and 2 were debatable because of how much more adherant to Muhammad Muslims are compared to Christians to Jesus.

But, I think its still Jesus at #1, because of:

1. More followers (2ish vs 1.3 ish, IIRC)
2. More widespread worship (global coverage is greater)
3. The countries that are 'more important' globally are predominantly Christian. By which I mean, say, the G-8.

[Brainwalter]

I don't understand how darwin is so high on these lists. I fail to see how his ideas actually changed the course of world events on anywhere near a Newton or Jesus level, or even a Merriwether Lewis level.

Explain yourselves.

[boncher]

Jesus Christ
Muhammad
Buddha
Confucious
Aristotle
Columbus
St. Paul
Einstein
Darwin
Galileo Galilei