is this cheating?

[treeofwisdom7]

in a post on the single table tourneys i believed this isnt a clear case of cheating. everyone else said it should be considered cheating. can someone shead some light on this topic and even define terms like cheating at card tables?

I am in a real pissy mood today so this bothered me.

I reported it to VIP support mostly just to see if anything would be done. I will keep emailing them until A) they do something about it or B) I get green.

I expect my entry fee to be returned and I expect the players involved to pay for it... Sure sure its just stupid fish and this is probably - EV for me to even complain, but if this is allowed then the game will suffer for it.


""""***** Hand History for Game 2233248722 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13241760) - Sun Jun 19 21:47:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 13872 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: St_Philip (2000)
Seat 7: Seat11 (695)
Seat 8: Jeanette29 (3205)
Seat 9: Newport2135 (2100)
Jeanette29 posts small blind (150)
Newport2135 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Seat11 [ 7h, 6c ]
St_Philip folds.
Seat11 raises (695) to 695
>>Seat11 is all-In.
>>>Jeanette29: are you calling? if you're not, I will.
>>>Newport2135: no
>>>Jeanette29: positive?
>>>Seat11: thats collusion
>>>Jeanette29: that's nothing.
Seat11: thanksnow now if you call and win
Seat11: I can report you
Jeanette29: go ahead not against policy
Jeanette29 calls (545)
Seat11: im good either way
Jeanette29: I don't care.
Seat11: i do
Jeanette29: I read my documentation.
Seat11: me too
Newport2135 folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1690 with Seat11
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jd, 4h, 9s ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2s ]
Seat11: better empty your account now
** Dealing River ** : [ 2d ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1690 |
Board: [ Jd 4h 9s 2s 2d ]
St_Philip balance 2000, didn't bet (folded)
Seat11 balance 1690, bet 695, collected 1690, net +995 [ 7h 6c ] [ a pair of twos with seven kicker -- Jd,9s,7h,2s,2d7h(kicker card) ]
Jeanette29 balance 2510, lost 695 [ 5c 6s ] [ a pair of twos -- Jd,9s,6s,2s,2d ]
Newport2135 balance 1800, lost 300 (folded)


Im such an [censored]. I get called by a dominated hand due to terrible collusion win, and I complain. I didnt place in the tourny, and like I said..... I am in a pissy mood. """


heres the link to the topic if you want to see it

[jason_t]

Is this science, math or philosophy?

[treeofwisdom7]

philosophy.

[fnord_too]

That is cheating. It is collusion. Send the transcript to support.

Also, this really should be in a poker forum. STT, the Zoo, and General Hold em all field posts like this. This forum is for BSing, err, discussing, things with no clear cut answer and arguing about whose sample size is bigger. This (the table talk durring the hand) is clearly a violation of documented rules.

[kyro]

So because everyone in one forum said it was cheating and you disagreed, you decided to post it in a completely irrelevant forum to try and prove us wrong. Ugh.

YES IT'S [censored] CHEATING. DEAL WITH IT.

[Darryl_P]

I'd say a good definition of collusion is

"two or more players communicating and/or co-operating with the intention of gaining an advantage over one or more other players"

Your case definitely qualifies since the small blind is co-operating with the big blind in order to make sure you get called. It's philosophically the same as the bb telling the sb what his cards are -- something that everyone agrees is a no-no.

The assumption in poker is that everyone acts solely based on his own interests, not in teams or partnerships. Sometimes pairs or groups of players use their sixth sense to act collectively, which one could say is unethical, but it can only be made officially illegal if there is some evidence of communication to that effect, like the chat messages for example.

[LetYouDown]

Would have been funny if the BB re-raised...he'd still be telling the truth that he wouldn't call.

[CallMeIshmael]

I didnt open the other link, so I dont know if that has some sort of revelation within, but this is SOOOO obviously cheating that I cant even see how its debatable.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
So because everyone in one forum said it was cheating and you disagreed, you decided to post it in a completely irrelevant forum to try and prove us wrong. Ugh.

YES IT'S [censored] CHEATING. DEAL WITH IT.

[/ QUOTE ]

i want someone to attempt to define cheating. everything can be dabated philosophically.

take a class

[CallMeIshmael]

2. cheating - violating accepted standards or rules; "a dirty fighter"; "used foul means to gain power"; "a nasty unsporting serve"; "fined for unsportsmanlike behavior"