Out of Jail...now object of ridicule

Hotchile · #1 01-23-2003, 03:20 PM

I had a couple of poker buddies spend a large portion of last night laughing at me. They both said that I committed a huge foul 3 nights ago, but I'm not sure I agree.

Playing 10-20 online. I got stuck 70 big bets and then got out and made 7 big bets. A number of times through the day my wife told me to quit and play another day but I kept analyzing my play and couldn't find any reason to quit the game. I got stuck by having opponents outdraw me at a frantic pace. I also found myself up against bigger overpairs on 5 occasions. KK vs AA twice. QQ vs KK once. JJ vs AA and JJ vs KK.
I felt at all times that I would get out of the hole.

My question is this: I felt that I was still playing well and that my opponents would eventually stop running me over. I was also keeping a close eye on whether the game started to toughen up beyond the point of no return. However, when you are stuck that badly, is it possible to make the types of judgements that I was making? Or, was I actually just chasing while justifying it to myself? I was stuck 30 BB within the first 2.5 hours so I had plenty of gas left in the tank. Did I make a bad decision after the first 2 1/2 hours to continue?

If poker is a long-term game, then what is the difference between continuing in that session or starting anew the next day? Both of my buddies said attitude. Is it reasonable to believe that my attitude would have been the same the next day?

I need to either shut these two up or seriously look at my own management skills.

Thanks in advance,

Larry

STOSH1 · #2 01-23-2003, 05:06 PM

You're playing you're best game, catching good starting hands, you're feeling confident. No reason in the world to quit, EXCEPT maybe the rest of the table is seeing you as very beatable, expecting to be able to suckout on you, not respecting your bets or raises, they'll take one off just because they're heads-up with you. How your opponents see you and your game is as important as how you're playing. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Bob T. · #3 01-23-2003, 05:21 PM

Which almost means that he will get more action, and maybe more opponents chasing him incorrectly, so that he might have a better chance at winning at this table than at a new table, or in a new session. 70 big bets is a long ways to crawl back from, but if the game is good, and you are confident that you are playing well, I think you stay there.

I don't think that I could go that deep in one day, and be able to play confidently, but if you can, more power to you.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

Hotchile · #4 01-23-2003, 05:31 PM

I think Stosh made a great point. When opponents feel like you are easy to beat, they will bluff more often. According the the fundamental theory, this becomes a losing situation. In all honesty, I hadn't given my table image enough consideration when making my decision to continue.

Alternatively, it did increase the payoff when hands started standing up. My last hand of the night was a turned nut straight that went 4 bets at the turn and 4 more at the river. I thought it was a chop but was awarded the whole pot without seeing my opponents hand.

I'm glad that someone sees this my way though. If the game is good today, I see no reason to quit a loser so that you can try to find a good game tomorrow.

Am I missing something in my thoughts?

Larry

Ed S. · #5 01-23-2003, 06:25 PM

If I may interject.

Even though you were still playing your best game and were not getting rattled or steamed at all you still do have to draw the line in my mind. There will be some night were you play the best poker you can and still get runed down by these 1 and 2 outers. Or just taking tough legit beats. They added up and wear you down mentally whether you notice or not. What I am saying basically is that I have also been in the same situation as what you were in. I was on top of my game and just getting hammered on legit and runner runner hands from the opponents. I felt good and I was not tilting at all. I continued to play and kept getting beat over and over until I lost my entire stack and what was in my wallet. This was at a 10-20 table and I went down for $1,200. Needless to say it was a rough night of cards. I think what we need to realize at some point that no matter how good the game is we have to draw the line and call it a night because we don't want have that kind of night affect us in future games. You don't want to be second guessing yourself or keep reminding yourself of the night we just couldn't have anything hold up on future occasions. Besides that little point. It is usually just good practice and good poker to know when to say when.

As the song goes, " You gotta know when to hold em', know when to fold em', know when to walk away........". This saying is not just lip service from a song but true words to live by with anything we do in life. Sorry I am way long on this.

But all in all I think there are times we should just call it a day. Then play and live for the next.

Ed S.

Hotchile · #6 01-23-2003, 07:46 PM

I know where you're coming from. However, what about the 2 week losing streaks that we all go on from time to time? How are you supposed to know when it's time to walk away. Is there a signal? How many times have you been buried in a game and gotten out. If you had quit earlier in that game, there would have been no getting out. The question is then, when is it time? If you have a correct bankroll for the limit being played, what is the point of a stoploss? Although, in most cases I would agree that the psychological effects can be difficult to deal with, on this occasion, I didn't feel bothered by the losses. I was still confident that it would turn around. BTW, I kept checking my stats as I often do to see if I had started calling with a lot more hands. That was not the case so I was satisfied that I was still playing my A game. I'm sure everyone has been where I was at least once or twice. I'm interested to get opinions on stoploss vs playing on?

Larry

Bozeman · #7 01-23-2003, 09:53 PM

90+% of players are able to convince themselves they are playing their best game when they are letting the beats get to them, usually in order to try to get back the lost money. If you are one of the few who is psychologically strong enough to ignore the vagaries of fortune, then go ahead.

Craig

David Steele · #8 01-25-2003, 05:43 PM

" ...they will bluff more often. According the the fundamental theory, this becomes a losing situation."

This is not right. If a particular player doesn't bluff very often or never bluffs then it is true you want him to stay that way. However for players that bluff too much, it is to your advantage to have them bluff even more.

I also agree it is ok to stay if you are up to it.

D.