A play I rarely make

[adanthar]

Party $109. Earlier in level 4, the villain in this hand had limped AK UTG, called a decent bet from the SB on a QT9 board, another one on an A turn and value bet the A river when he checked.

***** Hand History for Game 2212683289 *****
NL Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:13126094 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Wednesday, June 15, 20:55:30 EDT 2005
Table Table 14232 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: trytolie ( $4210 )
Seat 3: Rr200 ( $1188 )
Seat 7: Adanthar1 ( $907 )
Seat 8: tonil2177 ( $3695 )
Trny:13126094 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
There is no Small Blind in this hand as the Big Blind of the previous hand left the table.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Adanthar1 [ Tc 9c ]
tonil2177 calls [100].
trytolie folds.
Rr200 folds.
Adanthar1 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Jd, 5h ]
>You have options at Table 35010 Table!.
Adanthar1 bets [150].
tonil2177 raises [300].
Adanthar1 calls with the intention of pushing any remotely blank-looking turn.

[octaveshift]

I might push the flop here.

Why are you waiting for the turn?

My guess: Your call should look scary to the villain if he is a strong/alert player. Your push on the turn won't look much like a bluff, because you really have no FE against the bigstack. (It will look like you want the call.)

Am I close?

[durron597]

Well, this is a good way to maximize your FE, but I don't think you can get this opponent to lay down.

[45suited]

You put the villain on a couple of whiffed big cards and if you push the flop, he'll probably call (knowing he has two cards to hit). Plus, pushing the flop makes it look way more like you could be simply you pushing a draw. But if you push a blank turn you "can't" be drawing and then it appears to him that he is the one drawing to as few as 6 outs with one card to come?

I have to be honest - I would never have thought of this play. It's like a turn stop-n-go huh?

I should add that I don't think I could ever have the guts to make this play on the 11s or 22s. That would be giving way too much credit to my opponents...

[introv]

I understand why you did this but surely you have a different set of circumstances to your first hand here. Villain doesnt just call, he raises. If he is willing to call big bets with overcards only I don't think he'd need much of a hand to call your all-in on the turn?

Ah, but now you've bet out on the flop with the OE straight draw you don't want to fold but you want to maximise the possibility of getting a fold if you miss? I still can't see him folding.

[Unarmed]

I like this line in some cases, but I think its too fancy here. Anything that has you beat badly on the flop (TT through AA) isn't going anywhere when the turn bricks and you push. You're ahead of AK on the flop, and any PP lower than 7s. I'd just get your money in. If he has exactly 77 or 99, he may fold to that flop aggression (you didn't C/R all-in so it doesn't reek of a draw) and even if he calls you're not a significant dog anyway. I don't think your FE improves vs those two hands anyway when the turn bricks so get your money in now.

[45suited]

I think that you guys might be putting villain on too strong of a hand here though. You don't think there's any chance that he's just trying to bully the short stack and he too could have missed the flop, but just have overs?

I think it's entirely possible that the OP has as many as 14 outs here with one card to come.

[octaveshift]

Adanthar, would love to have you come back and comment on this hand.

Don't leave me hanging...

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[adanthar]

I do want to add that my stack and the fact that it was already the bubble had a lot to do with this.

[curtains]

My most common way to play this hand is to check raise the flop. It's so annoying when you bet out and get raised with only a draw, when there is some chance your opponent's hand isn't that strong and would have folded to a check raise.

Also if they check behind on the flop, it's an okay situation because you get a free card of course, and you can then strongly consider betting out on the turn if you miss, and be a little more confident folding to a raise.

Basically I hate the situation you put yourself into and would try to avoid it. Probably if I did want to play the hand this way I'd just move allin on the flop, as if they are bluffing (which they sometimes may be in this situation), you don't want to give them a free chance to hit something on the turn. Meanwhile if they werent bluffing it's very unlikely they fold to a contrived looking type of bet. I just don't get the point, what hand are you trying to make fold? A jack isn't going anywhere no matter what you do, an 8 maybe....but maybe not (probably not, your bet just looks too suspicious for me to expect someone to fold with anything here in such a big pot). Meanwhile you maybe get a lot of hands to fold that would occasionally beat you on the turn.

Anyway I feel like I did a crap job of explaining my thoughts here, but okay I would definitely check the flop, because getting raised is such a disaster and the pot size is just perfect for a check raise allin.