Coffee housing to win?? Critique wanted

MHoydilla · #1 01-09-2003, 09:15 PM

Let me preface this hand which occured at the Belligio on Tues. night. I was sitting in a 8-16 game (I know a bit low for this forum but I believe fundamentals can apply in any mid limit game)for a about 3hrs and at the table there were 3 losers of 400 or more all of which took a liking to me because I can be at times very personable and for those who dont know me I am very young. I was getting ready to leave when this hand took place: I was in the small blind with J [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] I called the BB called and we took the flop 8 handed. Flop came 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] I checked and players 2-5 checked as well, player 6 bet with 7 and 8(button) both called and I raised. Everyone in the middle folded while 6,7,+ 8 called. It just so happened that 6,7, + 8 were all stuck big, and I had turned over two monster hands all night QQ for Qfull and KK for a set and was percieved as being very tight. On the turn came a 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] I led out seat 6 folded and seat 7 thought about it and I stated "hey your my friend and stuck big why dont u save a bet. He than states that he has a hand that "could become good" then calls as does seat 8. river comes an 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] to leave a board of 2 5 6 8 4 with no suits and I bet out now seat 7 asks if I flopped the straight I smile and nod yes he than shows his two pair and folds and seat 8 who claimed he was on an over pair folded as well. I then proceeded to flip my hand over and laugh about it. Normally I wouldnt show my hand but earlier in the evening I was dealt a crushing blow in my personal life and was out for blood. I would like as many opinions as possible about the multiple dynamics of this hand. thanks in advance..........

mike l. · #2 01-09-2003, 10:19 PM

i can really relate to this hand. this is a lot like how i played a couple years ago. i wouldve shown the hand then, but i would not show it now. at least not playing 8-16, i might show it at 20 or 30 but i dont think things wouldve transpired in this manner.

i think you have more to earn by keeping these weak player's trust then you do by betraying them and rubbing their nose in it. i know as a young punk that it certainly feels good to do and gives oneself a little ego hard-on for a second, but in the long run it's not the most profitable route. keep your contempt to yourself and keep a well-behaved smile on your cute little face and youll get plenty more chips. all the talking them into folding and stuff was really good though. poker is a con game, never forget that.

btw i dont believe for a second that player 8 had an overpair.

MHoydilla · #3 01-10-2003, 04:25 AM

I agreed with your post and I especially liked the young punk comment, truthfully I was expecting alot worse, I may be a punk sometimes, but I am honest enough to admit it. The only reason why i showed was just to get an ego boost and it worked.

J_V · #4 01-10-2003, 04:34 AM

Wow, that's really flat out cold. You must have been on incredible emotional tilt from whatever happened in your personal life. I don't like coffeehousing in limit poker, in big bet it is ok, but I think you crossed the line here. It's your choice, but lying and then showing it after calling him a "friend" is brutal.

I am quite the young punk too, but couldn't do this (to someone. I think based on your post you aren't this type of person normally, you just weren't in your right mind.

If you are a good player you don't need to do this to win.

spiral · #5 01-10-2003, 05:05 AM

If you can pull off the acting job, consider turning over your cards and acting horrified that you "misremembered" your hand.

"oh no, it was LAST hand that I had 34!"

Then laugh ruefully.

Maybe they won't buy it but it's less confrontational.

This ploy can double as an excuse to leave, "I gotta get out of here, I must be seeing things".

Ed Miller · #6 01-10-2003, 06:14 AM

I have to agree that what you did was really rude on a personal level, and it probably wasn't worth a few bets. Honestly, if I did that to someone, I'd be looking over my shoulder as I walked out to the parking lot.

Tyler Durden · #7 01-10-2003, 11:27 AM

What is exactly is meant by coffeehousing? Talking and acting while playing your hand? I love talking about the play during the hand--it can throw opponents for a loop. But I agree--never show your hand.

Speaking of which--does anyone ever do a courtesy show? If so, why?

Tommy Angelo · #8 01-10-2003, 12:21 PM

"I then proceeded to flip my hand over and laugh about it. ... I am very young."

I'm young too, that is, to a Martian. Actually, my gal and I figured out what "young" means to someone over 40. It means "more than seven years younger than whoever is using the word "young.'"

Put me up before a panel a judges and they will judge my behavior at the table to be as close to perfect as any white man's. But that's not because I'm saintly. It's because among the many many needs that poker satisfies for all of us, interaction weighs in there somewhere, and for those who thrive on conflict, there will be conflict in due portions, and for those who prefer peaceful waters, that too shall exist. It shall be so, everywhere, at every frequency, at various times, for various people, in various settings, in various mindsets.

In other words, what you did was normal, simply because you did it.

If self-examination is what you're after, look not at the effect, but at the cause.

Tommy

andyfox · #9 01-10-2003, 12:59 PM

I can only assume that the small act of meanness you committed is weighing on your mind, since you felt the need to post it. We all deal with crushing personal blows in different ways;u certainly anger, the feeling of wanting "blood," is not unusual.

It sure makes the world a worse place though.

MMMMMM · #10 01-10-2003, 01:08 PM

The things to remember are we're all human, so personal things can come through in poker once in a while--you don't have to feel too bad about it--also showing your hand just makes you more readable in the future--and perhaps most important: increasing the confrontational personal dynamics of the game usually creates a less profitable environment.

I personally don't care for coffeehousing as it slows the game and is often just so much needless BS but a select few players are able to use it well as a tool.
More often other players who try it give themselves away.

I played with you a couple of times at FW, and you are young, bright and personable so best wishes and I think you'll do well.