Preflop call?

bufrakbh · #1 06-07-2005, 08:40 AM

I went through my games from yesterday and wanted feedback on some of the hands I was unsure of. Im not that used to the poker language or the way to present the problem, so please dont laugh too high if its not up to standard [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This was how the hand went:

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

4 limps, I call, button raises. All but the big blind calls (Pot: 7BB)

Flop: T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Betting: Check, bet, drop, call, call, ME....

What should I do? there is 2 behind me. I was very reluctant to fold top pair, but it was a very scary flop. There is both flush and straight danger. The guy that raised before the flop might have a king and my 4 would be worthless (unless later making a 2 pair or fullhouse).

As it turned out I folded, the better had ace-jack, so I would have lost.

As a bonus question: Shouls I even enter preflop? My thoughts was that there was already a lot in the pot and many players, and the strenght of my preflop hand was the flush draw, so it would be ok.

jrz1972 · #2 06-07-2005, 08:47 AM

1. This is a pretty easy fold on the flop. You're not closing the action and can reasonably forsee a raise from the pre-flop aggressor. It is very easy for you opponents to have you outkicked, or to be behind two pair, a big set, a straight, or a flush. Even if you ARE currently ahead, there are a bunch of cards that can beat you. Good fold.

2. I will sometimes play Kxs, but usually just on the button. The remaining players to act need pretty low PFRs, since I really do not want to have to call a raise with this hand. In other words, yes this is marginally playable, but it's table-specific.

Tom_W · #3 06-07-2005, 08:49 AM

I would have probably folded preflop, if you had A4s I may have called. (I wouldnt have liked the raise behind me though) The fold on the flop was good the preflop raise could have ment AK in which case your outkicked and their are plenty of other scary draws out their and no hearts so ya I think it was good to muck it when you did.

bufrakbh · #4 06-07-2005, 08:53 AM

Thanks.

I play ,5/1 on Pacific, and Im not reading the other players well enough to say if they are one or the other. Ususally its just "He is playing a lot of hands" or "He is always calling to the river, and then folds"

As I understand it there is no software to help evaluate other players at Pacific, but as soon as the bonus is cleared Im off to another site, and expect to get Pokertracker then.

Fantam · #5 06-07-2005, 09:08 AM

At the time the action came round to you on the flop there were 17sb in the pot, so the pot was quite big.

However 3 players had already indicated that they liked their hands sufficiently to bet/call and there were 2 more (including the PF raiser) to act behind you.

It was very unlikely that you were going to win this pot with that scary board. Flush and straight draws and possibly already made 2 pair hands or flush or straight.

Nonetheless you did have top pair (weak kicker) and were getting pot odds of 17:1 to call. So it would probably have been worth your calling the bet in the hope that your K top pair either held up or improved.

It definitely would not have been worth raising in this instance. Your hand was just too weak and would not have folded out a better K or any flush/straight draws.

On the turn you would then have had to re-evaluate your position, and depending on the turn card and action, folding to a double size turn bet or raise may then have been best.

Yes you were correct to enter the pot PF with 4 limpers in front of you. Kx(s) is a speculative hand, which can win you big pots if you make your flush.

It is probably best played from late position though, where you have fewer players to act behind you. That is because it can be a difficult hand to play if you just hit your K on the flop and have to act first with several players still to act behind you for the rest of the hand.

grjr · #6 06-07-2005, 09:08 AM

This is an auto-call for me pre-flop after 4 limpers. It's also an auto-fold on that flop. Nothing but bad news there. If you can't fold top pair on flops like this then don't play Kxs OR EVEN Axs. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

einbert · #7 06-07-2005, 09:14 AM

Don't fold the flop, the pot is too big.

Call and raise a safe turn I think.

bufrakbh · #8 06-07-2005, 09:24 AM

I can see there is a mixed evaluation, so Im not completely off here [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I havent mentioned the pot size consideration. To be honest I dont remember what my thought was, but I usually look at the pot size, so it was probably the reason for my doubts about not folding. And the rest seem to be inline with the thinks you all mention.

Thanks for all your comments.

einbert · #9 06-07-2005, 09:29 AM

The preflop call is fine, by the way. But not if you are going to fold this flop for one bet in this huge pot.

topspin · #10 06-07-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is fine, by the way. But not if you are going to fold this flop for one bet in this huge pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a flop fold here even if the pot is laying 1:10. If we're ahead it's not by much; most callers probably have at least 5 outs, and anyone with a spade has a monster draw against us. We're also way behind to a better top pair or two pair, many of our outs are tainted, and we face monster redraws even if we hit.

Playing Axs and Kxs with the little kickers is fine if you're not liable to get trapped into marginal hands on the flop.