Patience

[Scuba Chuck]

It is said that Patience is a virtue. That those who wait will be rewarded. Poker is one place where nothing can be further from the truth.

As I continue my studies, I often worry that I’m not being aggressive enough, or is this hand good enough to call? In my humbleness, I do not think I am skilled enough to teach poker, nor give excellent advice. I still view myself on the outside looking in. Yet the one thing that seems to fail this forum is a lack of discussion on patience.

I am of course an advocate of being very aggressive with premium hands. And being a student of the game, I am primarily interested in success (rather than entertainment). And most importantly, consistency of success. So, poker can be boring at times. That’s why I’ve learned to multi-table. But, in the end, there’s a fine line between aggression and stupidity.

Many of us students have posted and still post questions like – “Is this a place to push any two?” or “Should I call this allin with Ax?” During play, asking yourself What are the reasons to fold here? will often help you lead to the best decision. And of course, doing the math post game is also very important.

An old poster said:

“I can say without hesitation, that if I regret something (usually after a loss), is playing *too many hands* and not *too few.* To put it differently: I very rarely regret folding anything.”

IMO, it’s easy to be patient in early play. And yet I still see many mistakes made in levels 1 and 2. Patience is more difficult when you’re chip starved and it’s 8 handed on level 4.

But the real test of patience is when you’ve analyzed your chip stack, you’ve considered your opponents aggression, your position against aggressive opponenents, how chip starved you are, are you going to lose folding equity, how bad is it to lose folding equity, and how strong is my hand? Sometimes we fail to analyze in detail all of this info (and more) before making decisions. Sometimes we find ourselves making a poor decision because the solution to one of those problems (which we incorrectly give more weight to than it deserves) is to act aggressively, but when taking the situation in totality, the best solution is to be patient.

“I am … saying that no matter how diabolic your plan is, if you choose to get involved with an inferior hand, you will more often than not be handing your stack to the better hand.”

What I’m getting at is that we should always consider as many factors as possible when making decisions. Hand strength or lack thereof are important factors, but usually, it’s weight is far less important than we think. The answers to some of the thoughts I posed and more, should always be on a running mental checklist. Sometimes you have to get it in with the best of them. But sometimes, you need to be a little more patient, and let the game come to you.

Good luck at the tables,

Scuba

[lastchance]

There's the flip side of the coin too.

Instead of, whether or not I can fold, it's about whether or not I can pick up t150 with ease. The most important thing in the world is picking up blinds and limps with ease past L4.

The number one thing I think about when I'm going to push is, am I going to be called here, is it likely that I'm going to be called? And if so, unless I have a monster hand, I will fold. If you're getting a fold 90+% of the time, there's almost no hand you shouldn't push past L4.

That, plus, how do I maximize my EV, and what does the math tell me to do, is really what I think you should be thinking about.

Note, my normal play is to fold, unless there's a very good reason I should push (good position, short stack, great hand, tight opponents, etc).

[FieryJustice]

Call me crazy, but I have a little note card like thing next to my computer that says "patience." Patience, at least the way I take it, is to not get pissed off when my crazy agressive plays get screwed over when I lose to 3 outers. I guess I sort of relate patience with persistance. MAybe I have the 2 confused.

[NYCNative]

It is wise to be impatient when you have a hand and patient enough to wait for one.

[multifast1]

[ QUOTE ]
It is said that Patience is a virtue. That those who wait will be rewarded. Poker is one place where nothing can be further from the truth. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I agree with everything else you said but thaqt statement goes against the whole post... Did you mean "Poker is one place where nothing can be closer to the truth."?

[GtrHtr]

NH Scuba.

Almost every game I play where I am thinking patience before, and during the SnG my results are significantly better. In fact, the turning point for both my game and my BR has been a result of patience. Those times recently when I have played poorly have been the result of exactly what you describe -

[ QUOTE ]
“I am … saying that no matter how diabolic your plan is, if you choose to get involved with an inferior hand, you will more often than not be handing your stack to the better hand.”


[/ QUOTE ]

Patience in the higher levels is very difficult, but also very rewarding in terms of $$. Being the short stack of four remaining, picking your spots to blind steal to stay afloat, and waiting for that one hand or that one flop is a beautiful thing.

[Voltron87]

When I'm playing bad and palying too many hands early I tell myself "Look, you don't win big at this game on levels 1-3 unless you hit sets, hit AK, or have QQ-AA. So stop trying to do it without those hands. You don't double up in easy situations without those hands. There is very rarely a good reason to go bust early without one of those hands. Stay in the game late, don't bust until level 4 or hopefully level 5 without a good reason."

[AbelM]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not think I am skilled enough to teach poker


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. You make a very valid and well put point here.

Nevertheless i think SNG's are not that much about being patient and wait for the great hands, at least no where near the amount required in cashgames. In cashgames i might have been a losing player, just because i was too agressive and lacked patience. By playing SNG's i can have fun, be agressive and still be a winning player.

[Scuba Chuck]

multifast, good catch. Guess it was a little late.
Scuba

[45suited]

Along the lines of the "patience" idea, like most of you, I play tight in the first few levels. Because of this, I often have a stack of ~750-850 in level 3 or 4. But that's okay, I'm used to it, I still have some FE, so I don't mind this at all.

The problem that I run into sometimes is after I HAVE doubled up early and we're in the middle game, say level 4 with a few people left. I'm sitting there with a stack of t1800 or so, and I'm conflicted: do I "coast" a little, wait for hands, or push the smaller stacks around a little. It's a very fine line, because the smaller stack, with say 750-900 (the guy I'm used to being), if he's smart, is ready to make a play for all his chips. And he has enough to take a bite out of me. So, I'm conflicted...

Every situation is different because of all the variables I know (my cards, relatvite chipstacks, postion, etc.), but when I'm in this spot, I'm asking myself: "Am I being patient or am I not using my larger stack as power? Am I being patient or playing too conservatively?" Like I said, probably because I'm more used to it, I'm actually more comfortable playing as a shorter stack. Huge flaw in my game, I realize, but does anyone else run into this?

Recently, there was a post about what makes you the angriest: bad beats or running into monsters. For me, the answer is easy: it is when I get myself into good position and try to get aggressive (with 5 or 6 players left) but piss away my chips and finish OTM by playing stupid and picking fights that I didn't need to pick.