Bet Overcards on flop?

Jonathan · #1 05-31-2005, 09:43 AM

Hi!

I thought this was an interesting hand. In particular,
I was unsure whether or not to bet overcards on the flop.

Who bets this in this situation?

And what about the turn bet? Better to bet more? Or check?

Thanks,
Jonathan

__________________________________________________ _______
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t795)
BB (t600)
UTG (t1355)
UTG+1 (t890)
MP1 (t715)
MP2 (t775)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t720)
Button (t1375)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, 2 folds, Button calls t30, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t150) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets t50, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t200

NYCNative · #2 05-31-2005, 09:57 AM

I will bet a draw in an attempt to take a pot down or, failing that, juice the pot a bit more to get paid off better, under three circumstances:

1) I have at least a flush draw or an open-ended straight draw if not both. Having overs that I think will win as well are also nice.

2) There are only one or at the most two opponents. I don't do this in a multi-way.

3) I am in Late Position and feel that I won't be check-raised or that if I do, it will be a managable amount that won't make calling it a bad decision.

Since this board is only a gutshot straight and backdoor flush in a multiway pot acting first, I would play it like you did: Check the flop, hope to get the free card, call a raise if the price is right.

I probably try and check-raise the turn. The only card that can hurt you is a counterfeiting Ten or Jack which can give someone a Queen-high straight, which seems unlikely - it's more likely someone tries to steal the pot then and there than someone having one of those two hands (read dependent).

Wes ManTooth · #3 05-31-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I probably try and check-raise the turn. The only card that can hurt you is a counterfeiting Ten or Jack which can give someone a Queen-high straight, which seems unlikely - it's more likely someone tries to steal the pot then and there than someone having one of those two hands (read dependent).

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, though I would not worry about a ten on the river. Being first to act in the this situation... check/call the turn and lead on the river.

MrX · #4 05-31-2005, 10:13 AM

Betting this flop in a SNG serves little purpose at this level with 5 players in.

A more intersting question is how much if any of a bet would you call with that flop. I think that is where a lot of players leak chips in SNG's, where the same call in a cash NL ring game of a small flop bet would be correct.

Check the turn, see what happens behind you and act accordingly regarding size of check raise. It is uncommon for a hand to go through to the river w/o a flop or turn bet w/ 5 players. Some buffoon always makes a stab at it, or thinks his 33 is good, let them bet.

MrX

jgunnip · #5 05-31-2005, 02:31 PM

Fine up until the turn where I check and wait for somebody to make a play at the pot. Idealy you'll get all your chips in against a T or maybe even a 5 and there are donks that do this. If it checks around, you have to lead the river. But if you're going to bet, at least t100 would be the way to go.

And no, I'm not even thinking about betting overcards here...ever. Not with four still to act.

jgunnip · #6 05-31-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A more intersting question is how much if any of a bet would you call with that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see a situation, in a low level Party SNG where I would ever call bet here. I'm much more likely to raise than call. But even this is an extremly rare occasion. And I do mean extreme.

Bigwig · #7 05-31-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who bets this in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone looking to bleed a lot of chips. There are too many opponents to semi-bluff (weak semi-bluff, at that) out of the pot. Check it.

[ QUOTE ]
And what about the turn bet? Better to bet more? Or check?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good time to go for a check/raise, or check/call/trap. You cannot be beat by a flush, and can only lose to a higher straight if a J or T falls on the river.

Jonathan · #8 06-01-2005, 05:50 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

I agree that betting preflop into a field like this is
ill-advised.

After the hand was over, I realized that checking the turn
was probably a better way to extract more from this position, and apparently everyone agrees.

Thanks and Suerte,
Jonathan

curtains · #9 06-01-2005, 05:52 AM

One note, if you are called on the turn, I would move allin on the river no matter what (also I would have bet more on the turn). You need to make absolute sure you win every cent from a bare ten, and they will call your allin nearly 100% of the time, however sometimes will just call if you make a smaller bet.