A weakness in my game: Not respecting minraises

NYCNative · #1 05-31-2005, 06:42 AM

This could get me in trouble although I tend to respect minraises from players whom I respect. Very few of them play at this level as you can see...

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter

Button (t2635)
SB (t2120)
BB (t775)
UTG (t1915)
UTG+1 (t1575)
Hero (t2685)
MP2 (t2090)
CO (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls t30, 2 folds, Button raises to t60, 2 folds, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t165) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t165, Hero calls t165.

Turn: (t495) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t30, Hero calls t30.

River: (t555) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t555, Button calls t555.

Final Pot: t1665

Results below:
Button has Kh As (one pair, kings).
Hero has Tc 9c (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins t1665.

---

Yes I played this badly (mainly calling the flop bet) but I have trouble respecting the fishes. Between the minraise and then the turn bet, I was confused but honestly thought I was in it. Turned out I was way behind and got lucky.

After it was over he said "Nice hand" and I commented "Thanks. I got real lucky." I wanted to scream "YOU PLAYED ME INTO A WIN! MAKE REAL RAISES AND BETS AND DONKS LIKE ME WILL GO AWAY! YOU SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THAT POT!!!"

But I understand tapping the glass is poor ettiquette...

Here's another that just happend. If this guy bets correctly I go away. Instead I steal his pot:

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t60 (5 handed) converter

MP (t2015)
Button (t2785)
SB (t2180)
Hero (t4010)
UTG (t4010)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB raises to t120, Hero calls t60.

Flop: (t240) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t60, Hero calls t60.

Turn: (t360) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t60, Hero calls t60.

River: (t480) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t60, Hero calls t60.

Final Pot: t600

Results below:
SB has Jd Jh (two pair, jacks and eights).
Hero has 5s Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins t600.

---

I think it irritates me so much because I'm not posting the numerous times that the results weren't as favorable when I DO play these kinds of things "correctly" and either fold the best hand or lose when I get outdrawn when I was ahead...

Phill S · #2 05-31-2005, 07:02 AM

Dude, you have some pretty major weaknesses here.

Like calling on a flop with two undercards to a potential top pair. You dont even have a gutshot to luck into, you needed runners to win.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I played this badly (mainly calling the flop bet) but I have trouble respecting the fishes

[/ QUOTE ]

I struggle believing the fish at the table. But when they can beat me with an underpair, i tend to err on the side of caution.

-----

The second hand i can live with. Preflop i call miniraises from the BB if they are manageable. The deception makes it worth it long term (and helps project a 'get off my blinds' image).

Calling down top pair weak kicker is something i do a lot (but you need to have the chips to absorb the potential loss). Just make a note of what he miniraises when you find out. If he shows more strength, shut up shop and move on however.

Folding here is also a good move. I take your line depending on whether i think they are solid or not to decide which.

As for the river, just check call him again. If he happened to luck into two diamonds, or hit trips at some point, you could be looking at his entire stack in the middle and your the one under pressure.

-----

So, in conclusion: -

hand one, you were the fish
hand two, you coulda got in a lot of trouble

Phill

NYCNative · #3 05-31-2005, 07:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, you have some pretty major weaknesses here.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh yeah. It only comes up when I'm playing online with these small stakes. Believe it or not I'm a winning player at this level and a big winner in town at all of the local games I play in. I decide I have to "teach the fishes a lesson" and talk myself into calling them when meanwhile I'm as bad as them. Or worse since I feel I should know better.

A part of me decides that I have to play badly at times and hope to get lucky when I do. This is an overreaction to the times I played things straight and lost.

I am bookmarking this. Everyone please berate my play...

introv · #4 05-31-2005, 08:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t165) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t165, Hero calls t165.

I have trouble respecting the fishes. Between the minraise and then the turn bet, I was confused but honestly thought I was in it.

[/ QUOTE ]
How in the world can you justify your flop call by commenting on the weak turn bet?

[ QUOTE ]
"YOU PLAYED ME INTO A WIN! MAKE REAL RAISES AND BETS AND DONKS LIKE ME WILL GO AWAY! YOU SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THAT POT!!!"

But I understand tapping the glass is poor ettiquette...

[/ QUOTE ]
lol ... I hope you can see how utterly ridiculous and hypocritical this is?

You were the fish and you know you were ... lucky, lucky fishy!

durron597 · #5 05-31-2005, 08:58 AM

Hand 1 is terrible. You have no business calling his flop bet. Imagine he bets t300 on the turn (you couldn't know he would minbet it). You can't call that bet, and you just leaked a decent amount of chips with Ten high.

I like hand two. If the SB miniraises into my BB and there are no limpers, I will call with just about any two cards (any two suited, any two connected or one gapper, any Q+, any pair, but not 92o), because I will have position for the entire hand and I'm getting 3:1 on my call. I also like just calling down here as your hand has showdown value yet isn't that strong.

LeVoodoo · #6 05-31-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Turned out I was way behind and got lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turns out you were behind? You're behind Jack high for gods sakes.
I suggest you respect the fishes, without them, i don't see how you could win at poker making plays like these.

MrX · #7 05-31-2005, 10:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This could get me in trouble although I tend to respect minraises from players whom I respect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Players I respect rarely minraise preflop. Post flop play is different.

I have not read your histories yet, just noticed in the first one that it looked like the min raise was preflop.

MrX

jcm4ccc · #8 05-31-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter

Button (t2635)
SB (t2120)
BB (t775)
UTG (t1915)
UTG+1 (t1575)
Hero (t2685)
MP2 (t2090)
CO (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls t30, 2 folds, Button raises to t60, 2 folds, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t165) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t165, Hero calls t165.

Yes I played this badly (mainly calling the flop bet) but I have trouble respecting the fishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

#1 mistake of an SnGer: Playing marginal hands because of a "read" on an opponent.

Always Rockets · #9 05-31-2005, 10:57 AM

to agree with everyone else...calling the flop bet on the first hand was ridiculous, but I'm sure you've figured that out. If you want to teach a lesson to the fishes YOU need a hand! I don't want to belabour the point, but you understand what I'm getting at.

Your second hand, I would probably take your line, and then make notes the player and his raising tendencies.

jgunnip · #10 05-31-2005, 02:54 PM

Everyone is saying hand 1 is so bad because he just has ten high. Ok, but his opponent doesn't know that. Results aside, If hero puts villian on any hand that will fold if called on the flop and then bet into on the turn, then calling the flop bet with the intention of raising the turn is not bad. I know this isn't what hero did. It didn't really seem like hero had any plan at all for the matter (unless he neglected to say) but I guess its just something to think about.

Obviously, the turn calls is poo.

I don't mind hand two at all in fact I think you played it quite well. Like a previous poster said, having a very loose calling range when the SB open min-raises you in the BB is a decent strategy. Remember, the chip stacks at UB are larger than Party so there is more room to manuver and 'leaking' a small amount of chips early does not significantly reduce you chance of finishing ITM.