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#1
12-18-2002, 02:20 PM
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Zee mistake I made
Played this hand a while ago at Lucky Chances when they had the $2-3-5 NLHE game going. What do you think of the turn play?
8-handed. I call second or third in from the cutoff with JTs. Ray Zee's in the SB and raises about $30. I have maybe $450; he's got me covered. Three of us see the flop of KQQ. I remember it as rainbow. Ray bets $40. Fold to me. I call. Turn's a low blank. Ray checks. I check. River's a nine. Ray checks. I bet $60. We go into full patter mode, me smiling and jawing at him, him trying to get a read. He made a great feint, sticking a fistful of chips in and then yanking them back really quick. It was bold and funny. He hemmed and hawed a bit, then called with 97s to take the pot. I thought my turn check stunk. It stunk a little less because I had a straight draw, but how "less bad" was it? Any ideas? Please factor in the value of having a story about Ray (round to nearest $0.01). Matt 
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#2
12-18-2002, 03:11 PM
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Re: Zee mistake I made
Why did Ray win the pot? You had a straight and he had a pair of nines.
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#3
12-18-2002, 03:27 PM
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Re: Zee mistake I made
Im assuming something other than a nine hit on the river, and that Ray did win the pot and you had a busted straight draw. In any case, I would also take a free card on the turn here. I wouldnt want to get too involved , and possibly get check raised off my draw. There is also a pair on board, so I would just want to get to the river as cheaply as possible and hope I made my straight. If you bet, and did run into a real hand, then you would have to call a check raise with the possibility that you were drawing dead.
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#5
12-19-2002, 10:37 AM
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Re: Zee mistake I made
I think Ray was letting you have the pot on the turn - well, that's usually my default thought here anyway, results notwithstanding.
Instead of bluffing on the end after you show weakness on the turn, use those same chips to stick out a bet on the turn...before you show weakness yourself. Bit late by the river. Then I guess Ray used that as part of his decision to call you.
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#6
12-19-2002, 11:12 AM
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Right of course - river was a seven n/m
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#7
12-19-2002, 03:39 PM
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Re: Zee mistake I made
why call w/ jt. i raise here 100%. you see how ray made the right play raising w/ 97. you should be taking that play away from people. never look to FLOP a hand in big bet look to WIN a hand.
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#8
12-19-2002, 08:18 PM
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Re: Zee mistake I made
Why raise all the time, especially against a really good player? Calling behind is more intimidating, gets you more information before you steal, and gives you the free draw to the straight. I gave Ray a lot of credit here to be able to occasionally reraise with nothing on a good (and correct) read. Flat calling made it harder for him - I just botched the turn.
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#9
12-19-2002, 08:29 PM
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maybe I wasn\'t clear
i meant raise coming in w/jt not re-raise. your call after getting outplayed pre-flop was ok. if you raise coming in with this hand you win 100%. ray may still call but hell fold to a bet on the flop. and, strangely, i beleive a raise encourages good players to call you with dominated hands such as 45 of the same siut as your JT but FOLD live hands such as A6 of your same suit. OK, no more of my secrets.
bye.
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#10
12-19-2002, 08:41 PM
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limon where you been hiding these months?
Doh. Got it: preflop raise. Good point.
Good to see you posting again. Matt
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