Semi-bluffing the river

FreakDaddy · #1 05-29-2005, 03:26 AM

I was planing on limp re-raising pre-flop, but that didn't happen. So... good line or chip spewing? I don't see villian having much of a hand here. The river bet is what made me push hard. If he doesn't bet, I'm not entirely sure I try and steal it, as villian is a bit of a LAG and not a very solid player.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($51.35)
MP1 ($61.05)
MP2 ($29.5)
CO ($82.4)
Button ($101.25)
SB ($49)
BB ($98.05)
UTG ($60.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets $2, Hero raises to $5, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($15.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB calls $8.

River: ($31.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $14, SB folds.

Final Pot: $46

Jordan · #2 05-29-2005, 06:48 AM

fold preflop. check behind on the turn. call the river.

FreakDaddy · #3 05-29-2005, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop. check behind on the turn. call the river.

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huh? dat wooood b ugly.

DoubleDown · #4 05-29-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop. check behind on the turn. call the river.

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I also think this is best. The bet on the turn doesn't accomplish much. You're probably behind and need to improve on the river to win - what do you do if you get C/R'ed big after betting the turn? checking behind on the turn is better than betting

he's not folding a hand that beats you to that river raise. he's already called you twice and will likely call you a 3rd time if he has you beat. just call the river

FreakDaddy · #5 05-29-2005, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop. check behind on the turn. call the river.

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I also think this is best. The bet on the turn doesn't accomplish much. You're probably behind and need to improve on the river to win - what do you do if you get C/R'ed big after betting the turn? checking behind on the turn is better than betting

he's not folding a hand that beats you to that river raise. he's already called you twice and will likely call you a 3rd time if he has you beat. just call the river

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Faulty logic. What hand(s) do you put villian on here?

DoubleDown · #6 05-29-2005, 03:58 PM

i cant put him on a hand ... you never raised/bet enough to be able to put him on a hand.

Your raise on the flop was too weak to represent a strong hand because it gave villain odds to chase a str8/flush or even allow him to think that any pair (especially TP) might be good.

On the turn/ you bet about 1/2 pot, again pricing in draws and various hands.

I can't put him on a hand ... but from the way it was played I can't see him folding a hand better than yours. After your raise he will fold when he's beat, call when he has you beat, and C/R when he a)has you beat b)is bluffing (which you obviously can't call.)

hopefully you and/or others can chime in and tell me what parts of my logic are "faulty"

Godfather80 · #7 05-29-2005, 04:14 PM

fold pre-flop. This one isn't even close. What's the point of playing a hand like this OOP? It's a money loser.

FreakDaddy · #8 05-29-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre-flop. This one isn't even close. What's the point of playing a hand like this OOP? It's a money loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Changing gears on the table. My only mistake is that I didn't re-raise pre-flop.

Godfather80 · #9 05-29-2005, 04:26 PM

I understand the value of changing gears at a table. But, at this level, if people are picking up on your game that much, I think you should simply switch tables.

I'm not sure reraising OOP with an off-suit connector can be +EV even when you're changing gears. Shouldn't you be looking for a better opportunity to show down a weak hand and advertise you gear change? One that won't potentially cost you your stack?

FreakDaddy · #10 05-29-2005, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i cant put him on a hand ... you never raised/bet enough to be able to put him on a hand.

Your raise on the flop was too weak to represent a strong hand because it gave villain odds to chase a str8/flush or even allow him to think that any pair (especially TP) might be good.

On the turn/ you bet about 1/2 pot, again pricing in draws and various hands.

I can't put him on a hand ... but from the way it was played I can't see him folding a hand better than yours. After your raise he will fold when he's beat, call when he has you beat, and C/R when he a)has you beat b)is bluffing (which you obviously can't call.)

hopefully you and/or others can chime in and tell me what parts of my logic are "faulty"

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I can somewhat agree with your flop analysis. I wanted to represent top two pair/made straight(which is a little more of a stretch). So I'm back and forth about whether raising to the pot with players left to act shows more strength or just raising to something like 8 is a better play at this level.

The 1/2 pot bet offers borderline odds and it's a play intended to set up a decent size river bet if a straight or flush doesn't hit. This way I've shown strength throughout the hand, without showing too much that screams, 'I'm trying to push you off this pot'.

As far as the river play here, I'm hoping to force out TPTK, or the possible busted draw, which I'd win any way, but I feel I'm likely against TPTK that was played poorly. There are really only very marginal hands that can make this call on the river. My betting patterns for made hands are identical to this play (almost), and if he's somewhat observant, he has a tough call here. There are a lot of hands that beat him.