A9o, BB, bubble

dfscott · #1 05-28-2005, 01:01 AM

This 22 was very passive, even on the bubble. Lots of limping and min-raising, but a decent amount of steals as well. This was the 7th hand of the bubble, and we'd been 5-handed for over 20 hands before that.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter

UTG (t1470)
Button (t2775)
SB (t2175)
Hero (t1580)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t300, Button calls t300, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ???.

Anyone push here?

Well, I didn't, so I got to see this flop. Check/fold, push, or something else?

Flop: (t1050) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

runner4life7 · #2 05-28-2005, 01:05 AM

I check preflop and check fold after the flop. Ive pushed in that situation far too many times to see people holding higher aces or the occasional monster.

Shillx · #3 05-28-2005, 01:07 AM

I would shove it in preflop. I mean...if you are thinking about pushing when you miss the flop, you should be doing it preflop right? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

So IMO it is between going to the felt preflop or check/folding this flop.

Brad

runner4life7 · #4 05-28-2005, 01:12 AM

yeah i think i may change mine to push pre flop as well, that was a couple rare instances and i think it probably is +EV to push preflop especially with all the chips out there to steal and with a call there are extra chips, so push final answer.

mike28 · #5 05-28-2005, 02:10 AM

UTG is the only one I'm really worried about. Just calling 1/4 your stack is reeks of wanting someone to push into him.

Scuba Chuck · #6 05-28-2005, 02:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats YOUR reason not to push here?

DasLeben · #7 05-28-2005, 02:56 AM

I push and yell "hoooolla."

It'd be all good.

dfscott · #8 05-28-2005, 08:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats YOUR reason not to push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I push, I'm giving everyone nearly 2:1 odds to call (1.8:1). I'd be sad about it, but I'd call that push without a second thought, and I didn't really want to showdown with A9o. I know the stop-and-go is overused, but in this case, I felt like it was the only way to get any FE.

In retropect, I think check/folding the flop was a better line.

Scuba Chuck · #9 05-28-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I push, I'm giving everyone nearly 2:1 odds to call (1.8:1). I'd be sad about it, but I'd call that push without a second thought, and I didn't really want to showdown with A9o. I know the stop-and-go is overused, but in this case, I felt like it was the only way to get any FE.

In retropect, I think check/folding the flop was a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

How come you don't look at your pushing as getting the same odds? There's a lot of dead chips in there for anyone to play with. Your hand is as good as any. The only reason not to play it this way is that villain is a known "monster" limper.

dfscott · #10 05-28-2005, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I push, I'm giving everyone nearly 2:1 odds to call (1.8:1). I'd be sad about it, but I'd call that push without a second thought, and I didn't really want to showdown with A9o. I know the stop-and-go is overused, but in this case, I felt like it was the only way to get any FE.

In retropect, I think check/folding the flop was a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

How come you don't look at your pushing as getting the same odds? There's a lot of dead chips in there for anyone to play with. Your hand is as good as any. The only reason not to play it this way is that villain is a known "monster" limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, let me see if I can explain myself better.

There's around t1000 in the pot. If I push, I'm risking about t1300 to win t1000. We do stuff like this all the time when we're stealing, but that's because fold equity (or the Gap Concept, if you prefer) makes your hand worth more than it really is.

However, in this case, I don't think I have hardly any fold equity at all. Let's say someone limped in with KJs. After I push, he's practically forced to call me, even though he probably doesn't want to. At that point, my stack (and likely my tournament) rests on a coin flip. Although we all have to do this sometime, I'm not eager to do it now.

And that's one of the better cases -- worse case, I'm facing a monster.

Of course, maybe my opponents are idiots and either a) are limping with total trash and will fold or b) don't realize that they have to call me. If you allow for that possibility, then I think you can make a case for pushing pre-flop.