Trash in the SB against 2+2er

[Phoenix1010]

This is the first hand of the bubble. BB has posted on 2+2 before, but not often. He appears to be playing the way you would expect any Supbroer to. I believe the blinds are going up within the next couple of hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter

UTG (t4805)
Button (t535)
Hero (t1260)
BB (t1400)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero?

[DasLeben]

Personally, I'd make this push against a 2+2er every time. That is, unless he knew I was a 2+2er as well. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Newt_Buggs]

I'm making this push against any player that I have seen playing well.

[lastchance]

If Villain's 2+2, he understands the bubble. Against anyone who understands the bubble, Hero slides his chips all the way in. Any 2 push!

[Big Limpin']

Hmmmm, but what if we reverse the viewpoint?

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter

UTG (t4805)
Button (t535)
SB (t1260)
"New" Hero (t1400)

Preflop: "New" Hero is BB with XxXx.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB pushes (likely any 2) "New" Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

What would be a prudent calling range if you knew the 2+2 SB's push was with any two?

Certainly you would still be best to muck the Q9-type of hands, even if they are somewhat above average. But KOing the SB prolly gives you a lock 2nd pace, and a significantly better shot at winner.

This is not rhetorical, im interested in others standards for hands to call with when you know the SB is pushing any 2

(also, sorry for hijack Mr. Phoenix, in the future should i ask these kind of follow up questions as new posts? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img])

[lastchance]

If I remember correctly, it's something to the tune of 99+, AQ+. Maybe a bit looser here, but not much.

[Phoenix1010]

No problem. I think it's better to keep related topics in the thread rather than clutter the forum anyway. I think Lastchance's range is probably close. It's almost a pure math problem, I don't have Eastbay's tool so I can't really answer your question outside of guessing.

-Phoenix

[microbet]

When you KNOW SB is pushing with ANY two, you have a pretty wide range of calling hands with +$EV.

Ax, K7o+, K4s+, Q9o+, Q8s+, JT, 44+ (interesting that JT is good but 33 isn't)

The range is wider than one might think because short stack isn't that much shorter than the other two small stacks.

Unless I knew for sure it was an aggressive 2+2'er and I knew for sure that he didn't know I was a 2+2'er, I would tighten up considerably - but still call with A8, KJ, 77 or so.

[freemoney]

i think if you are using something such as eastbays tool as something more than an aid then you are really inhibitin your ability to improve, this isnt meant to an individual but more as a broad statement.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
i think if you are using something such as eastbays tool as something more than an aid then you are really inhibitin your ability to improve, this isnt meant to an individual but more as a broad statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not using Eastbay's tool at all...

The question that BL posed was more a math problem than anything, so I gave the obvious answer: use a calculator.

I agree with your general statement that sometimes people put too much faith in ICM and $EV calculations, but there's no better answer for strict math problems.

-Phoenix