Party 109 AK button/bubble hand

[citanul]

Semi interesting hand:

BB is me: assume that I'm only going to call with AA and KK for the purposes of this hand. SB is a donkey, he's calling WAY too much. He's not interested in silly things like raping the bubble, just in continuing to donk his way through the tournament.

Stacks:

UTG: 200
Button: 1820
SB: 6020
BB: 1960

blinds 200/400

utg folds, button has AKo.

Button?

To take this further, what hands do you think should be pushed from the button against a guy who's calling with a few ranges of hands from tight to loose?

What hands would you call with as the big stack, against various types of opponents, remembering that you're going to possibly have a shot at big stacking at the table even if you do lose this hand?

citanul

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not interested in silly things like raping the bubble, just in continuing to donk his way through the tournament.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is one of the funniest statements ive read on this forum in a while.....as for the hand: if the sb is really as much of a donk as you say he is, im going to want to be more than a 2:1 fav if called and i give serious consideration to folding. (that being said, i prolly push at the table considering that i have at least 4 other bubbles going on and pushing ak is like a reaction to me). the hands that should be pushed in this situation imo are aks, jj+. calling as a big stack would have the same range for me as going into the money with 60% of the chips in play is a huge edge. that being said, if im the big stack and button minraises, im pushing a7+, 66+, any two paint.

[citanul]

good reply.

what about if the button pushes instead of minraising.

[Voltron87]

What does way too much mean? Way too much by 4 players left standards?

hmmmm... its close. i typed out a few sentences a couple times but each one wasn't right.

fold.

if sb isn't going to steal often then I might pass this one and take the 3rd place cash.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
What does way too much mean? Way too much by 4 players left standards?

hmmmm... its close. i typed out a few sentences a couple times but each one wasn't right.

fold.

if sb isn't going to steal often then I might pass this one and take the 3rd place cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, way too much actually referred to how much he's been calling (and subsequently luckboxing his way to 6k chips) to this point in the tournament.

i was assuming he'd continue, as that just felt right. as you can tell, i can't tell just yet what i feel is too loose a calling range for him if the button pushes.

citanul

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
good reply.

what about if the button pushes instead of minraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

aks jj+....too tight?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
good reply.

what about if the button pushes instead of minraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

aks jj+....too tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know.

most of the looking at this hand that i've done to this point is from looking at the EV of pushing AK here with different calling ranges assigned to the big stack and the bb. judging from those ranges, pushing is pretty marginal (making like a 7 buck profit on 150 in equity) if you make the guy call with A2+ and 22+. (i may be misremembering these numbers.) that's a fair amount of variance to be adding to just pick up 7 bucks in equity. but i dunno. so judging by that standard, clearly a different calling standard is one that is +EV for the big stack.

image plays certainly come into effect in situations like this. particularly if you (big stack) and you (button) are playing together lots, a few spite calls in situations like this clearly aren't going to cost the big stack much in the way of ev, but are going to both totally piss off the button player and make him make some, how do you say "interesting" notes on you.

just a few thoughts.

citanul

[45suited]

I hate situations like this. Haven't run any numbers, but I think I'm just pushing here. I mean, it's not out of the question that short stack gets lucky on the next hand, gets up to t600, then who knows? If the donkey big stack then wakes up and starts raping the bubble like he should, it becomes very uncomfortable for you while shorty might just call with any two and get back in it. Clearly, BB needs an absolute monster to call you (at least QQ). Hopefully big stack realizes your position and that you need a huge hand to push here. I don't know, as has been written already, as I'm writing this I don't know if this is correct, but I think I'd push. Then break my monitor when big stack calls and busts me with JTs.

[Newt_Buggs]

alright, I'll risk sounding like an idiot and be the first one to say it-what about limping? The SB obviously isn't going to push you off of your hand pf, and I'm assuming that the BB is going to be afraid to play back at you because he is afraid that the donk SB calls. For less than 1/4 of your stack you can see a flop and have a good shot and flopping a strong hand. Furthermore, if they both miss I wouldn't be surprised if they check to you, allowing you to get a 4th card for free. It seems like this is definitly +EV, making it better than folding.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
good reply.

what about if the button pushes instead of minraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

aks jj+....too tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know.

most of the looking at this hand that i've done to this point is from looking at the EV of pushing AK here with different calling ranges assigned to the big stack and the bb. judging from those ranges, pushing is pretty marginal (making like a 7 buck profit on 150 in equity) if you make the guy call with A2+ and 22+. (i may be misremembering these numbers.) that's a fair amount of variance to be adding to just pick up 7 bucks in equity. but i dunno. so judging by that standard, clearly a different calling standard is one that is +EV for the big stack.

image plays certainly come into effect in situations like this. particularly if you (big stack) and you (button) are playing together lots, a few spite calls in situations like this clearly aren't going to cost the big stack much in the way of ev, but are going to both totally piss off the button player and make him make some, how do you say "interesting" notes on you.

just a few thoughts.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is one of those spots where you should prolly forgo your current slight edge in order to be alive for a much bigger one in the future, i like to think of this as an implied edge. there are many posters who play all of their edges to the max regardless of size, and i think that having 60% of the chips in play when 3 handed is much too big of an edge to risk for a few bucks. (think of it like investing in stocks)....