A move I've seen a lot lately

[twang]

Raising a gutshot nut-straight + one overcard on the flop after a preflop raise where the PF raise come from someone else.

Example 1: Limping with ATo in MP1, pot is raised LP. 4 players to the flop of K, Q, rag. EP bets. MP1 raises.

Example 2: Player in EP raises PF. MP1 coldcalls with KJs. 4players to the flop of Q, T, rag (none of MP1's suit). PF raiser bets, MP1 raises.

MP1 has ~5 outs and I can't see how raising is good here.

Thoughts?

/twang

[Emoney]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising a gutshot nut-straight + one overcard on the flop after a preflop raise where the PF raise come from someone else.

Example 1: Limping with ATo in MP1, pot is raised LP. 4 players to the flop of K, Q, rag. EP bets. MP1 raises.

Example 2: Player in EP raises PF. MP1 coldcalls with KJs. 4players to the flop of Q, T, rag (none of MP1's suit). PF raiser bets, MP1 raises.

MP1 has ~5 outs and I can't see how raising is good here.

Thoughts?

/twang

[/ QUOTE ]

am i reading your second example wrong? it looks open-ended to me.

[Elbie]

The first raise with a gutshot and an overcard I guess is to try to fold out the two other players. A fold from another A would increase your winning chances in case the turn brings one. Could also be a straight forward gamble on the gutshot. I wouldn't raise in this situation though. The Ace out isn't clean and the odds for the gutshot not good enough.

The second case I guess is for value with the OESD. I wouldn't make this raise either. You don't want to "raise out" one or two players with your draw to the near nuts.

[daftdg]

I also count 8 unless theres a flush in there somewhere, in which case you still have six

[twang]

[ QUOTE ]
am i reading your second example wrong? it looks open-ended to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mental note to self: Be awake when posting.

/twang