10-20: 3 betting QTs BTF, then calling down

JTG51 · #1 12-15-2002, 09:51 PM

This is from a pretty good 10-20 game. UTG is here just to gambool. I think he's played every hand for the last 2 hours, most of them to the river. SB is a very loose player. The Button is a very tight, good player.

I'm in the cutoff with Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] . UTG straddles. Everyone folds to me. I 3 bet. SB caps. That could be almost any 2 cards. UTG calls and I call.

Flop: J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets, UTG calls, I call.

Turn: [J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, UTG calls, I call.

River: [J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] ] A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

SB bets, UTG calls, I fold.

Thoughts? The play of the hand felt very unusual to me, as I don't 3 bet QT preflop very often, and I'm not in call down mode all that often either. Does anyone think I chose a reasonable line of play based on these opponents?

PokerPL · #2 12-15-2002, 10:36 PM

I would never smooth call a stradle if i was first in , i would always raise . Your hand is good enough to call so i would riase in this instance.

RINCON · #3 12-15-2002, 10:53 PM

like the 3 BFT.This is a hard play,I would have raised the flop,bet the turn and hope for the free showdown at the river.Calling down leads to the problem you faced at the river and that was the ace showing up.If she wasn't there yet that probaly got her there.

RINCON

Jeffage · #4 12-15-2002, 11:25 PM

Preflop play is an automatic reraise with your hand. I would wait to see what comes on the turn to decide what to do since raising the flop is eliminating no one here. When the six drops off, I am raising the turn (probably folding to a 3 bet) and looking to check down the river unless I improve or am against one opponent and can find value in betting (ie, he'll pay off with ace high). I think overcalling the turn isn't good bc you don't want to give free cards if you are ahead (to something like KQ or AK for example).

Jeff

JTG51 · #5 12-16-2002, 02:02 AM

In general, I think I agree with you. At the time, against these opponents I dind't think that was the best play though. I may not have given a very good description of the SB. If I raised, I was likely to get 3 bet by a wide range of hands. Some that I'm way ahead of, some that I'm way behind. For example, he's probably 3 bet KQ on either the flop or the turn.

I'm haven't convinced myself yet that I like my play though.

Robk · #6 12-16-2002, 03:07 AM

JTG, I think that you're preflop three bet is not such a bad idea here, but only because you are in the cutoff and it's folded to you. I don't think that this is in general a strong enough hand to try and isolate with. I think that the main problem, even from the cutoff, is that no one really respects your 3 bet any more than they would an open raise from the button, and you're likely to get someone coming over the top with a wide variety of hands. If I knew that there were players left to act who were especially likely to play back, I think I would lean towards folding despite your position. Another (maybe silly) thing to consider here is that big cards in the earlier positions would likely have tried the same isolation play, so it is a little more likely the remaining players have solid hands.

Jeffage · #7 12-16-2002, 07:38 AM

If the SB is crazy enough to reraise on the expensive street with overcards or an open ender as well as a big pair, then I think your play isn't too bad in some ways, but it really depends on how crazy he actually is. He is betting into a protected pot since he knows the straddler is going to keep calling, but then again if he is nuts this shouldn't concern him much. I still think with your hand, I'm finding a raise somewhere...but I gotta go to work and I just got up so maybe I'm still half asleep =).

Jeff

JTG51 · #8 12-16-2002, 01:48 PM

Wow, I'm impressed. Posting at 12:30 AM as you are falling asleep, then again at 6:30 AM when you wake up. You are my hero Jeffage.

I think another legitimate question is if it's worth 3 betting preflop with a nut in the SB. I think it's an easy 3 bet with reasonable players in the blinds, but since my chances of getting heads up were relatively small, I'm not so sure.

JTG51 · #9 12-16-2002, 01:50 PM

Rob, I think in general this would be an easy 3 bet, especially with a tight player on the button behind me. I'm not sure how easy it is though with a loose cannon in the SB.

JTG51 · #10 12-16-2002, 02:06 PM

The final board is J [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

SB bet, UTG called, I folded.

SB showed K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] for the nuts. UTG flashed a A in frustration.