Playing in very loose-aggressive games

[Nutz]

I tend to do pretty well in most games I play in. I struggle mightily, however, in very loose-aggressive games; i.e., games with three or more maniacs. I tend to run in to these games quite a bit in SoCal, so I'd like any suggestions on how to play them. (I am usually tight and aggressive, and like to play heads-up, or three way after the flop). Thanks for any suggestions.

[Ulysses]

Speaking in general terms, I play in 50% loose-aggressive, 25% loose-passive, 25% tight-aggressive, so I'm very used to this style.

I see two types of loose-aggressive.

Style A: Very aggressive pre-flop. Here, I play only ATs/AQ/AK and TT+ from early or middle position and I add in any suited Ace or King and a lot of suited connectors from late position if it looks like multi-way action for one or two bets.

Style B: Not very aggressive pre-flop, but crazy once the cards fall. Here, I'll play any pocket pair from any position, just about any suited connector, and any suited Ace. From late position, I'll raise with just about anything playable because I'm going to get 6 callers and 5 of them will have crap. I'll also play a fair amount of suited Queens and Kings in late position.

[M.B.E.]

I tend to agree with Ulysses. When you talk about a game with "three or more maniacs", are they capping it a lot preflop? If so, then the advice in HEPFAP for this type of game is probably best: only play the super-premium hands, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK. If it's getting capped preflop with seven or eight players, then you can add the other pocket pairs, and also suited aces. Maybe also some big suited cards like Qh-Th, but only in late position with lots of people in.

Hands like 88 are moneylosers when you're in a game where typically it's capped preflop with only five- or six-way action. You need to be able to count on at least seven-way action to play 88 if the action's likely to be capped preflop.

There's another type of loose-aggressive game, where it's usually raised preflop, but only occasionally three-bet or capped, with an average of five or six players seeing the flop. In this type of game you can play lots of hands preflop, as long as you play very aggressively on the flop and the turn.

[astroglide]

qth is a *TERRIBLE* hand to hold in a capped family pot

[M.B.E.]

If you're playing in a typical or tough game and this one hand happens to be a capped family pot, then you're right, Qh-Th is not too great.

But we were discussing games that are extremely loose-aggressive. If you're in a game where many pots are capped preflop with seven- or eight-way action then your opponents' hands are not much better than random. In this type of game, Qh-Th is playable in late position, because it figures to win more than 1/8 of the time.

[astroglide]

capped preflop doesn't mean capped on every street with everyone staying in

you're paying 4/5 bets up front on queen high, and your implied odds are absolutely hosed because of it. the hand is -ev if you're paying a cap just to see the flop.

[M.B.E.]

Astroglide wrote: "<font color="red">capped preflop doesn't mean capped on every street with everyone staying in</font color>"

I'm aware of that, but it works to your advantage. If the flop comes queen- or ten-high, you can play aggressively on the flop/turn and knock people out. I figure that in the loose-aggressive game I described, if you have Qh-Th in late position and the flop comes queen- or ten-high, you should be able to win about one-third of the time. Other times, of course, you will win by making a straight or a flush. That's why in this type of game the hand is profitable in late position in a capped family pot. If overall you're winning one-sixth of the time you play that hand, you'll be making lots of money. Folding it preflop in this type of game in late position is just giving up a good opportunity.

Let me stress again that I'm talking about a loose-aggressive game, so you don't have to worry as much about your QT being dominated. In fact, in this type of game your opponents are just as likely to play Q8 as QJ, so often when a queen flops, you will find that your QT is dominating.

[astroglide]

i think you're 100% wrong, and 100% nuts

you're not going to knock anybody out with 28 small bets in the pot if the flop came down with old maid cards

qts completely sucks for 4 bets with any number of opponents, period. the hand relies on implied odds. reread the hpfap loose section.