how do I evaluate someone elses stupidity?

Newt_Buggs · #1 05-22-2005, 05:27 AM

I just don't know what to say
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (4 handed) converter

Hero (t795)
UTG (t6095)
Button (t870)
SB (t2240)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to t160, SB calls t135, Hero raises to t795 (All-In), Button folds, SB calls t635.

Flop: (t1750) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1750) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1750) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1750

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9s Jh (one pair, aces).
SB has 3d 3c (two pair, aces and threes).
Outcome: SB wins t1750. 

two questions:
1. is this usually a push with any two? It looks like the button is on a steal and the SB is trying to sneak in with a hand that he shouldn't be playing. The small blind in there will make it even harder for the button to call a push and the small blind most likely does not have a hand that he wants to risk his entire stack with.

2. How do I interpret these results? Just shrug and move on or does this show that pushing here was wrong?

Freudian · #2 05-22-2005, 05:31 AM

I don't like pushing marginal hands on the bubble when someone raised, especially when blinds are this small. That he isn't pushing for 16xBB shouldn't be interpreted as him not liking his hand.

DasLeben · #3 05-22-2005, 05:32 AM

I'm not sure I can accurately answer all your questions, but I can certainly answer this one:

[ QUOTE ]
how do I evaluate someone elses stupidity?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really evaluate. I just think that everyone at my table other than me is an idiot. No really, it works. Try it! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

curtains · #4 05-22-2005, 05:33 AM

I would not push, people are crazy. I know the reward is greater but I always prefer to push against zero action (assuming a weak hand like yours) than two people who have shown that they at least like their hand a little bit. For these guys, liking their hand a "little bit" can mean they simply aren't going to fold for another 600 chips especially when the SB can come up with excuses about how he has a big stack, and theres 160 dead money from the button and so on.

Also there is the reasonable chance that button busts or becomes crippled this hand if you fold.

Nick B. · #5 05-22-2005, 05:34 AM

Who is being stupid here besides yourself? The pot is 370 before you pushed. You can push 635 more, giving 1.6-1 odds on your all in. You are the shortstack, you have a target on your head from the big stacks which means you probably need a better hand to make this play.

Atropos · #6 05-22-2005, 05:36 AM

With 25/50 blinds I do not like this play at all, because pushes are rare and you cannot say that buttons hand is weak because he raised 3BB. How it would be with 50/100 blinds I dont know.
It seems the forum's wisdom ends at the point when limpers/raisers/coldcallers are involved and not just simple pushes/calls. I can only say I dont like your play, but I dont know how to prove this mathematically.

treeofwisdom7 · #7 05-22-2005, 05:40 AM

i think everyone on this thread is right..
maybe you were thinking he was trying to steal your blind with J9 oh wait he would have you beat
maybe... you were thinking he was trying to steal with AJ -- oh wait he still has you beat. ok ok maybe you were thinking he was trying to steal with K9 such a bad hand right . ehhhh he still has you beat.

maybe you were thinking he was trying to steal with 33 hey! correct.. just let him steal here and if you gotta just call.

applejuicekid · #8 05-22-2005, 06:40 AM

I really liked your play here. I don't think pushing is wrong, but apparently everyone else disagrees. Curtains does make a good point about players falling in love with their terrible hands, but you are shortstacked and this looks like a great stealing opportunity.

shejk · #9 05-22-2005, 06:45 AM

I'm positive this is a +chip ev move. That said, I don't think I would have done it on the bubble with the other shortstack in a hand where he may go out, and you having 15+ bb.

Edit: For the reason that people fall in love with their hands way too easily.

NYCNative · #10 05-22-2005, 06:46 AM

This might have been a good opportunity for a "Stop & Go" kind of move. Would it have helped you win the pot by getting people to fold if you called and went All-Inafter the flop no matter what the flop was? Would it in the long run in such a case?