Bet the river please.

[Bob T.]

One of my friends that I discuss poker with a lot mentioned that one of the strengths that he sees in my game is my ability to ignore the scary river card, and go ahead and make my value bets.

Anyway, this hand came up, and I think it shows why you need to make those thin value bets, although this one was anything but thin.

Online 5-10 game, I open raise in MP with KJ of clubs, folded to the small blind, who is extremely loose and passive something like 60/4. He calls, demonstrating that he is still connected, and the BB folds.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Looks like a good flop for a preflop raiser, SB checks, I bet, and he calls.

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] He checks, and I am having a hard time figuring out a hand where I am ahead, I check behind.

River 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] He checks, and I boldly bet the nuts. He calls. I show my hand, and he grumbles about my suckout.

Well, I grab the hand history as fast as I can, to see how bad I sucked out, and it turns out that he had 76 of hearts.

So the board was AQT97, and he had 76 for a pair of 7s no kicker. Think for a second, and try and figure out which hands I could have, that I raised preflop with, that he could beat.

Then realize, that if you don't make a lot of value bets against this player, you are leaving a lot of money on the table.

Good Luck,
Play well,

Bob T.

[Buck_65]

Beautiful. I've been called down by queen high at 2/4 enough times to back you up on this.

[Michael Davis]

He beats 66!

-Michael

[cmwck]

I don't get it. Are there people that say you shouldn't bet the river?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are there people that say you shouldn't bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

On this particular river, it's an obvious bet. But I think that he also saying you should bet KT here, for example.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are there people that say you shouldn't bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are people who think, hmm this pot is big enough let's just end it now because I don't want to get my hopes up and get check raised.

And, well I think I'll win most of the time, certainly more than half but um I might not this time, I'll check.

Or, I'm going to be nice guy and check.

Or, please lord make the bad man stop calling, oh were at the river, whew I check. I hope he didn't suck out versus my nuts.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are there people that say you shouldn't bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are people who think, hmm this pot is big enough let's just end it now because I don't want to get my hopes up and get check raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd and I would welcome a check/raise here.

[ QUOTE ]
And, well I think I'll win most of the time, certainly more than half but um I might not this time, I'll check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd and he has the nuts.

[ QUOTE ]
Or, I'm going to be nice guy and check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd.

[ QUOTE ]
Or, please lord make the bad man stop calling, oh were at the river, whew I check. I hope he didn't suck out versus my nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd.

[shant]

I understand the point you're trying to make but next time I think you should post a hand where you don't have the nuts. Say you had A8s or KQo on this board.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. Are there people that say you shouldn't bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are people who think, hmm this pot is big enough let's just end it now because I don't want to get my hopes up and get check raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd and I would welcome a check/raise here.

[ QUOTE ]
And, well I think I'll win most of the time, certainly more than half but um I might not this time, I'll check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd and he has the nuts.

[ QUOTE ]
Or, I'm going to be nice guy and check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd.

[ QUOTE ]
Or, please lord make the bad man stop calling, oh were at the river, whew I check. I hope he didn't suck out versus my nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's so absurd? You seem to use that word too often. I do not think it means what you think it means.

You are applying what you think to the typical player. Bob has given you an example of what the typical player thinks, and I can give you hundreds more. I can't tell you the countless number of times that people have not reraised the nuts on me on the river. When asked one guy said, "every time he raises I lose". For the average player this type of mentality is just flat out ingrained.

So if the average player won't raise the river or sometimes even bet the river with a strong hand what about those semi weak holdings were he has TP ok kicker or second pair, or 3rd pair but he's likely ahead? I guarantee for most players who read this forum they get to the river and the hand is over for them and they simply just don't want to risk a bet. For these players they are giving a huge edge back to the competition.

[shant]

I think what jason was saying was that it is absurd to think that anyone who participates on this forum isn't going to bet the nuts on the river.