Bellagio 15-30 hand

[M.B.E.]

I have K[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] in the small blind. There's two limpers and the button raises. I call, as does BB and limpers. Five-way action with 10 small bets in the pot.

FLOP: Q[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

I check, intending to checkraise the button. BB bets out. One limper folds; other limper and button call. I just call.

TURN: [Q[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

Checked around to the button, who bets. I call (?). Others call. Four of us see the river card; 11 big bets in the pot.

RIVER: [Q[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]] 6[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, BB bets, limper folds, button calls, I call.

Results later.

[Ed Miller]

I muck KQo for a raise in the SB... even a button raise. If the button is the sort to raise a wide range of hands on the button here, then it is probably worth a play... but there can't be much +EV here in playing a relatively weak holding in the worst position for a raise.

Planning for the checkraise is fine. I think I agree with just calling after the bet comes from your left.

After being checked to the button, I think you have a raise or fold here on the turn. It's hard not to put BB and limper on draws here (or possibly the slowplayed JT). I think it's unlikely that the button has an 8, given his preflop raise. He could have a set... but I think a Q is more likely. So you fold if you think AQ is most likely (though you should have folded preflop in that case).. and raise otherwise.

On the river, I think you have to overcall given the way you played the hand and what hands the button could have. I think BB and button probably both have Q's. BB could have JT and been weak on the turn when the scare card came. Either way, I don't think you can muck here.

[BB King's]

Your pre-flop call is debateable because the buttons raise is not a steal-raise because of the two limpers.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to raise the flop - but you have to raise the turn !

Just my opinion ...

[cpk]

You have to pay too much to see the flop out of position with KQo. It's probably the best hand I would muck in this situation, but muck it I would.

I think a raise is pointless on the flop, but a check-raise on the turn separates the pretenders from the contenders.

The river is a rough overcall, so why not bet out? That naturally follows from a turn check-raise.

[mike l.]

big unsuited cards suck in big pots. playing from the sb sucks. folding here preflop is the strong disciplined play. calling here is what a lot of us do. i definitely do too often.

the flop play here doesnt really matter. i think it's pretty clear that bb is on a draw when he bets out of order. i think he has T7s because that jives w/ his out of turn river bet. i think the button has something like A8s. i dont know where you can get off of this hand though given the pot size. you may have button beat, he may have JJ or TT for instance.

so... i think you played it fine.

[lysis]

The logical read suggests that the BB has T7s, and the button has anything from an AQ (unlikely, since you would probably see a raise on the flop) to a QJs (more likely, since this explains the pre-flop raise as well - "button raise").

It is also possible that the BB has 89.

Personally, with two cards to a flush, and a button who raised, I don't see that I have much of an option other than to bet out on the flop, for the horrible reason of "seeing where I stand", and to figure out how cautiously I should proceed on the turn and river (i.e. if button raises my flop bet, I can consider folding).

However, your plan to check-raise did give you some good info, when the BB bet, and the button just called.

Given the info gathered, I don't see how you win on the river, given the BB's bet out of turn. It's a tough position to save a bet in, I probably couldn't it myself either.

lysis

[mikelow]

Why no checkraise? Weren't you planning that? Yes, I would checkraise the turn to thin the field out. As for
playing KQoff in ths small blind, it's close. Big unsuited cards don't do so well in large multiway pots.

[M.B.E.]

Lysis, you win the prize for best read. BB did indeed have 98o for a full house. Nobody else showed, but the button angrily said to her husband (who had been watching), "I had a hand!". I assume she had JJ, TT, QJs, or perhaps KQs.

Interesting that almost everyone said to muck preflop. This is 15-30, so calling a raise from the SB is a little cheaper than in 10-20 or 20-40. I was getting pot odds of 13-to-2 assuming that everyone else called. Still you all could be right that a fold preflop would have been best.

The flop play was straightforward. Sometimes I would have bet out in that situation (it's very important to "mix up" your flop play in the small blind: if you always go for a checkraise when you have top pair, good kicker then your opponents will know you have a draw or a weak hand when you do bet out). Obviously after BB bets and everyone calls it's pointless for me to raise.

During the play of the hand I didn't really like my play on the turn. My impulse was to checkraise after the button bet, because there was a reasonable chance I had the best hand. But something smelled wrong: I thought someone -- perhaps the button -- might have JT for a flopped straight. Also with the bottom card pairing, I was suspicious that either the BB or the limper had made trips and was going for a checkraise. So I called.

The irony of this hand is that I could have won it preflop by three-betting, forcing the BB to fold. Also I could have saved a few bets by folding preflop. But other than that, I lost the minimum on this hand.

The BB was crazy not to raise the turn with his full house, after the button bet and I called.

[Ed Miller]

I have to admit that I didn't even consider the boat. He bets out on the flop with two pair, but then checks-calls when he fills? Geez... people are strange sometimes.

[JTG51]

I agree mojorkong, but I see players do this type of thing all the time. They seem to be trying to guarantee they don't get more than one bet on any street with a big hand. It always makes me scratch my head.