KQs, top pair, big pot?

[dtbog]

Situation: 5/10 Limit, Turning Stone casino.

I'm the same NL player that has been playing more and more limit lately... just looking for some guidance here.

I'm not posting stack sizes, because this isn't NL. No one's all-in. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hero raises from UTG+1 with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, LP1 calls, BB calls.
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Since Turning Stone caps at four bets, I capped the betting here, because A) I knew it would be a five-way pot, and I had high suited connectors, and B) for a little deception, if any.

Anyone agree with this?
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Hero caps, everyone calls. (five-way pot).

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, folds around, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls.
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OK, so MP2 is a solid player, and he probably has an overpair. We've played thousands of hands of NL together, but not much fixed-limit, and my NL experience with this player fixes his range of hands now as AQs, KQs, JJ-AA, or a set.

Is there any reason to put any more money in this pot/ (the sheer size of the pot? chance of hitting trips/two pair? chance that he might be bluffing or have JJ?)

Does anyone check/call here?

Does anyone lead the turn?

Does anyone check/fold?

Advice welcomed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
-dB

[trentcroad]

Since u three bet id lead the turn.
If raised on the turn that would tell u where u were at but id still call down afterward.
Would like to hear some other thoughts though!

[brettbrettr]

This is your game, your read, but it looks to me like you really overplayed this one.

Capping pre-flop seems excessive. If Villin isn't comatose he's not 3 betting an UTG raise with mcuh you're ahead of.

The flop 3 bet continues to be excessive. What do you think he's raising you with?

The way you played it, I think you should probably call down...Folding top pair in a pot this big isn't generally a good idea.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
it looks to me like you really overplayed this one.

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I don't disagree with you -- however, I'll try to defend some of my decisions, and I hope you or someone else can point out why I'm wrong. (I'm learning, here!)

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Capping pre-flop seems excessive. If Villin isn't comatose he's not 3 betting an UTG raise with mcuh you're ahead of.


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Well, in strict terms, I'm not "ahead" of 99, but I still put in the extra bet.

I did this 1) because an early raise-cap looks like it very well could be aces or kings, and 2) because I think I have a hand that holds up very well in a large pot. (top pair isn't really what I want here).

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The flop 3 bet continues to be excessive. What do you think he's raising you with?

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He might still do this to isolate with JJ-99 (which doesn't beat me), but remember that I capped preflop and now I'm 3-raising the flop, AA/QQ are very possible holdings for me.

I think you're right, though, because he's not going to fold AQ/KK anyway with this much in the pot.

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The way you played it, I think you should probably call down...Folding top pair in a pot this big isn't generally a good idea.


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Is this generally true, assuming the board isn't something ridiculous like 89JT3?

-dB

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, in strict terms, I'm not "ahead" of 99, but I still put in the extra bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

99 is probably about the best you can hope for here, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
I did this 1) because an early raise-cap looks like it very well could be aces or kings, and 2) because I think I have a hand that holds up very well in a large pot. (top pair isn't really what I want here).

[/ QUOTE ]

This second point makes more sense if you're in position. YOu say you're looking for more than just top pair, which would indicate a draw, which would be helped by free cards, which you're not going to get out of position. I think that last bet is a waste. If you're looking for the second nut straight or flush, you're not going to like most flops.

[ QUOTE ]
He might still do this to isolate with JJ-99 (which doesn't beat me), but remember that I capped preflop and now I'm 3-raising the flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is, he knows this too, and he doesn't seem worried.


[ QUOTE ]
Is this generally true, assuming the board isn't something ridiculous like 89JT3?

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Well, if you have top pair, then sure. Its a numbers game. If there are 25 bets in a pot and you have to call 1 on the river you only have to win the pot 1/25th of the time for your call to be profitable. If there's a 4% or more chance that this guy is pushing AK, hot diggity.

[Rafael_Luiz]

[ QUOTE ]
This is your game, your read, but it looks to me like you really overplayed this one.

Capping pre-flop seems excessive. If Villin isn't comatose he's not 3 betting an UTG raise with mcuh you're ahead of.

The flop 3 bet continues to be excessive. What do you think he's raising you with?

The way you played it, I think you should probably call down...Folding top pair in a pot this big isn't generally a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youre right that he has to call down, but I like the cap preflop with the high suited connector. After the flop action, if he is behind it is to KK or AQ, and if he is ahead, it is over JJ or a high pocket pair. By betting the turn and river, you get money from JJ when he calls down. However, if you check on the turn, and hes a solid player he'll bet out with AQ or an overpair. Thus, if you want to see the showdown, i think going bet/bet is best.

[brettbrettr]

I'm sorry, seeing as how MP2 called the flop 3-bet you have to bet the turn.