Too aggressive with the ladies?

fooz · #1 05-12-2005, 11:57 AM

Both opponents are tight, a little passive pre-flop, and rather aggressive post-flop (especially MP1).

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

************

The more I look at this the more I think I should just call the flop 3bet, and call down. Could anyone actually lay this down before the river?

Nick Royale · #2 05-12-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The more I look at this the more I think I should just call the flop 3bet, and call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't.

trentcroad · #3 05-12-2005, 12:11 PM

I think id prob play it the same as u.

crunchy1 · #4 05-12-2005, 12:19 PM

I think it looks much more like an overpair to the board and an underpair to your QQ.

The small blind worries me. Unless MP1 doesn't raise AA/KK/AK PF and will then cap those hands on the flop I think I raise the turn and try to lose SB.

Whatever happens I'm seeing a showdown against MP1 - if SB sticks around that might be a tougher situation.

I don't think the call-down (if after the turn you're folding to a raise from either Villian) is horrible. After the flop action it seems like SB is taking whatever he has to showdown.

fooz · #5 05-12-2005, 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it looks much more like an overpair to the board and an underpair to your QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're on the right track. I think both players hands are relatively easy to read given the positions, their tightness, my pFr, and the flop texture/action.

MP1 must have 44 - 88, I think he'd pFr above that (maybe even w/88). I don't think he'd 3bet 55. So it's almost 50/50 whether I'm way ahead or way behind, leaning more towards behind.

[ QUOTE ]
The small blind worries me. Unless MP1 doesn't raise AA/KK/AK PF and will then cap those hands on the flop I think I raise the turn and try to lose SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB could be on a gutshot w/a backdoor flush draw, or an outright flush draw. I think he would have 3bet 2 pair. And I think there's a decent possibility he has an Ace or King, given he called my pre-flop raise.

So...I almost think I could lay down the turn. Capping the flop, then being lead into on the Turn AND having the Ace hit, I'm almost certain that I'm behind.

DMBFan23 · #6 05-12-2005, 12:58 PM

who raises the turn and puts no more money into the pot?

EDIT: nevermind, we capped the flop and he still bet. I dont like this a whole lot.

fooz · #7 05-12-2005, 12:59 PM

cool.

DMBFan23 · #8 05-12-2005, 01:01 PM

no I was posing it as a possible line, and asking if there was anyone who took that line. but I dont like the line, looking at it again

Pokey · #9 05-12-2005, 01:01 PM

Preflop is standard.

On the flop you've got a huge overpair to a junky but semicoordinated board. Your raise is for value, and your cap seems sensible enough, though I'd prefer smooth-calling with the intent to raise a safe turn card.

Turn card is an ace, and MP1 hits it again. An ace is a scare card, and aggressive post-flop players LOVE betting board aces, whether they've got one or not. I think this turn bet demands a raise, both to push SB out of the hand and to push back at Aggro Boy. Your Queens are still good quite often, but the board just got scarier: now, a river club is unsafe, too, along with the previous worries. Get those draws out of there before they sink your battleship.

River call is crying, but mandatory the way you played it. You are ahead often enough to call but behind too often to raise.

Edit to say: I can't advocate folding this turn for one bet. The pot is too big to walk away from it without firing a shot at it. If I were MP1, I'd damned sure bluff at this pot, and from what we know about it, there's no reason why we can conclude that's not what's happening here. I fold for a reraise, though.

fooz · #10 05-12-2005, 01:08 PM

What do you think the MP has?